FL built one off steel trawler??

This is a 50 steel trawler that i am looking at. She was designed by an undisclosed(at this time due to issues between owner and designer) from FL. The hull and mechanicals were reportedly done by a yard in South FL, and the owner, a long time sailor, building the interior. She motored 400 miles on her bottom to her owners home where he worked until she is now about 90% complete, with just some wood finish and the forward cabin to be done. Then, 5 years ago, he put her on the hard to take a temporary job in Italy that became permanent. He is selling.The owner is reluctant to tell me the issues with the designer, but has been forthcoming with all other issues. Theoretically, he designed her as a shallow draft, tunnel hull, hull tanked, passagemaker with potential mast capabilities. I would love to know if anyone knows who designed her, or if they have seen one similar. Hopefully, as i do my diligence, which you guys are part of, i will come to know the designer and possibly create my own relationship so as to gather his knowledge. The boat is loaded and priced close to where i could make it work, if her design is capable. The main concern i have is that, if you integrate tankage into the hull, and tunnel the props, and keep limit upper deckage, can a boat like that be seaworthy 20 Tons and sitting 3.5 feet light? She hold 2000 gals diesel 375 gallons fresh water, and about 400 gallons cooling water and 100 gal grey/blk all in multiple integral hull tanks. Would love any comments or help finding Engineer/hull designer. Have many more details. Just ask. If i can't answer, i will ask owner. robert

 

So the owner won't tell you who designer is ? Or even why he won't reveal the name ? Too much Secret Squirrel for my liking !

 

I'd also be interested in knowing who built the hull and mechanicals, and then finding out what their reputation is. The builder or possibly someone who worked for the builder should be able to tell you who the designer was.

I'd also be slightly concerned about whether the "issues" between owner and designer have any potential legal implications for a future owner. You might want to talk to an attorney with good knowledge of both commercial and admiralty law.

 

Short of getting the build plans in hand I wouldn't consider the boat, and without a name on those plans I would demand they be sent to a reputable NA to be checked over for problems.

Frankly there are too many good reasons a NA might want to distance himself from a project for me to feel comfortable buying something where the history of the vessel in in doubt. For instance did the NA spec x grade steel and they used Y grade? Or did the yard make changes?

To much uncertainty in my eyes.

 

Question is, what does the designer know that the seller doesn't want you to know?

 

i am working on finding more disclosure on the NA. But, according to the owner(thus far), it was that the NA wanted more more money to do xxxx where the owner believed he had paid for it already. All that will be settled prior to me purchasing. I know what a boat can cost to get to this point and this boat could be bought right, relative to that cost. I also like the looks and the layout works for me. I know the boat was built in Ft. Lauderdale and i have written him asking for full disclosure. At this point, he believes, that at the price he is asking, the boat and the quality he believes it is, should stand on it's own. I would normally walk from this deal, but the boat seems to fit almost every ticker that i have, and is loaded with extra features. such as integral tanks, tunnel hulls, mast option, large pilothous, standup ER, sort chine, integral swim platform(+3). Should be just what i need for Caribbean, South America, Intercoastal, and inland rivers. The question is, do i push the guy to give full disclosure. Do i do, as he wishes, and hire my own NA to take his AutoCad of the boat plans, and review and inspect and get my own opinion along with survey? The owner does have the AutoCad and has sent me a few plans(tanks, interior, lines) with signature removed, if any of you wish to see. There are also more pix if you would like to just comment on how she looks to you. At this point, the only bad truth is the untold. Thank you! Robert Jones, Camden, AL

 

The owner having removed the NA's copyright and signature and then distributing autocad files alone may well be in breach of his contract. Be careful you don't insert yourself into the middle of a legal battle or take on the lien or liability yourself.

 

You have a fine dilemma: A boat that you really want and a set of circumstances that has the strong potential to cause you some expensive grief.

If this was a little outboard skiff then I might go for it because the liability is probably manageable. The big boat is not a chump change proposition so the risk is proportionately larger, maybe disproportionately larger.

If the seller really wants to sell he will lower his price signifigantly, reveal his secrets, and transfer the liability to you, all with the help of a knowledgeable attorney. It is a crap shoot in any case.

"Where there is smoke there is fire"

 

Run away! Run like the wind! Once you catch your breath congratulate yourself on ducking a bullet.

 

There are very few yards in South Florida that would build a one off steel vessel like that. It could have been built by subcontractors at any number of sites, with the owner or his rep acting as project manager.
Can you narrow down the time frame when it may have been built in So FL?

Steve

 

Ok, you have found something that turns your crank. Time to bully up and go after it. The fact that you don't know the architect means the price will be about half what it would be if you did. So when your surveyor looks at comparables, he's only looking at home builds, basically. That's the price the seller has to pay to play his game.

Work with a broker and a surveyor. Structure the deal so that no money, not even escrow, changes hands before he shows a clear title. Contact the courthouse to see if there are any liens or co-owners or other encumbrances. It may be he just doesn't want the person he has a conflict with to get wind of the pending sale. Maybe the NA ran off with his girlfriend and she owns half the boat (yeah, there's a story there for another day).

Get the seller to tell you and your broker exactly how he sees this going down.

Don't give away any of your options. From your perspective, just keep telling everybody that this is going to be a totally ordinary boat sale, and when everybody is prepared to make that happen, you'll buy it. It took me six months of once-a-week phone calls to get one of my boats sorted out. Six months of telling the guy "yep, I still want to buy your boat." Then one day he called and said "It's sorted out, come buy the boat". Reassurance can go along way when it comes to procrastinators. Once you get them moving, keep them moving, or it might be another five years till anything happens.

Good luck with it.

 

Maybe the seller didn't buy the plans and doesn't want to pay the designer his due.

What's a set of plans for a boat like that cost?

 

If you have the drawings and can confirm with the builder and another NA the quality of the build I might be willing to accept it. But I would demand a discount from a similar boat. Frankly not knowing the NA's stance on this boat just concerns me.

 

Disclaimer - I'm not an attorney.

before he shows a clear title

My understanding is that a clear title for a boat isn't something someone can show you. Rather a clear title means that there are no encumbrances, liens, claims, etc against the boat.

Someone can guarantee a clear title, but if a problem with the title arises the guarantee is only as good as the willingness of the person making the guarantee to defend the title, and the ability to collect any losses from the person making the guarantee. That could be difficult to do from someone living in Italy.

I've heard that admiralty law only applies when a boat is in use. Local commercial law applies while a boat is being built.

 

Sounds like Steve Jobs case. http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/al...g/late-steve-jobs-yacht-launched-45205-9.html

DCockey, post 122.