First Time Builder

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Fshngrandslam, May 12, 2011.

  1. Fshngrandslam
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 24
    Location: Virginia

    Fshngrandslam New Member

    Hey guys first time posting and its my first time building a boat as you can tell. I started this project thinking i had some sort of clue and the directions i got off the internet thought would help. Apparently they didnt that much and i have winged the whole boat and now am at the stage of is this thing even going to float.

    I started this project by looking on the internet for some plans and found some for a boat that was perfect for me. Then i went to a friends house that has already built one and took pictures asked questions and got some answers that would help out but they really didnt enough.

    Here is a little background on this project i am taking a shop class in school and was promised my first year which was last year that i would be able to build a strip plank kayak for my this year production/senior project. This year i have my teacher from last years son as a wood shop teacher. But i was still able to do my project but decided to just go ahead and build a plywood boat. Anyway long story short, over spring break my teacher brought his dad in to check out my project and he told his son that my boat will not float. This is my question to you do you think it will or not? Is there anything i can do to change it to make it if it is now Able?

    So me as a first time builder is asking you what do you think of this from my pictures.

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    1 person likes this.
  2. cthippo
    Joined: Sep 2010
    Posts: 753
    Likes: 37, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 465
    Location: Bellingham WA

    cthippo Senior Member

    Welcome aboard, Slam.

    The question is how invested are you in what you have now? Your choices are to start over with a different plan as Dean says, or you can finish it. If you go the latter route it's going to build up a heavy and expensive boat that isn't going to float very well.

    The problem you face is one of water pressure. The water is going to push in on the sides and the joint between the side and bottom (called the chine) isn't nearly strong enough as you have it put together now. In order to make it float you need to reinforce the chine joint with pieces of wood run from side to side along the bottom (or sole). Basically, if you can stand outside the boat and push on the top of the sides (called the sheer) and move them, the water can too. If I were going to try to do it, I would put 1x6s on edge across the bottom on top of the 2x4 and screw them into the ribs.

    Another place you're going to have problems is attaching the sides on the front (bow) to your existing sides. They will be coming together at weird angles and I'd have to really puzzle at it to figure out how to make that work, if it's even possible. This is probably the single biggest issue that's going to keep this design from working.

    Finally, the only way this is going to float is if you wrap it in fiberglass. As it is, there are just too many leak points.

    I'm the one who always tries to be encouraging, but I think that getting this into something you can put in the water is probably a bridge too far.
     
  3. Dave Gentry
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 31
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 50
    Location: Charlottesville, Virginia

    Dave Gentry Junior Member

    Ahh, it looks like you've put in a lot of work, and are clearly interested in building a boat - congrats!

    But . . . honestly, you are really only making a vaguely boat shaped object. Investing a lot more time and money into this project will probably result in something that floats and can be maneuvered - gently! - under oars. Adding a motor, or some variety of sail, for propulsion, is unlikely to result in anything at all satisfactory, or even safe.

    But . . . your time, money and effort could actually get you a great boat, instead!:)
    Unfortunately, you'd have to start over.:(
    You can probably re-use some of your materials, though.:)

    First off, there's no need to re-invent the wheel - educate yourself (ugh, I know) just a wee bit about boat building. It's pretty easy if you have access to a library. Interlibrary loan will get you any book you want, usually for free. Check out any of the "Instant Boat" books by Harold Payson, or Jim Michalak's "Boatbuilding for Beginners and Beyond." These are not big boring texts, rather they are short, quick reads that will tell you everything you need to get started in building simple plywood boats (that work great!), and they all have free plans included, along with step by step instructions, and lots of pics.

    In any case, good luck, and feel free to ask lots of questions!
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 474, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Fshngrandslam, you're pointed end box will float, until it leaks enough water to sink. I can't call that a boat, because everything about it, bar none is wrong. It's a box with a point on one end.

    Depending on how tight a joint you have along the chine, what type of sealant, the fastener spacing, type of fasteners, etc., etc., etc. will determine how fast it leaks (and it will). You're notched chine logs have so dramatically weakened them, that they'll only serve as planking nailers now. I know you're not finished, but you appear to have athwartship stiffness issues and a single 2x4 on the bottom plank seam just isn't going to cut it.

    Yep, it'll float, for a little while. Bring flippers with you on launch day.
     
  5. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Welcome to the forum, Fshngrandslam.
    That is not a bad first boat. With the next one you will use the knowledge you gained building this one.
    Wear your pfd.
     
  6. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,596
    Likes: 253, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Look at all those barstools!
     
  7. Fshngrandslam
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 24
    Location: Virginia

    Fshngrandslam New Member

    I was defiantly planning on covering this in 6oz fiberglass, I guess what I could to is just scrap from the from piece out and then re do that and add the extra support on the bottom of the rubs with the 1x6 like you stated and just redo it over the summer I already have about 600 in wood invested over so I just cannt scrap the whole project Id really have to reuse most of the materials
     
  8. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 474, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Buy a set of plans. You haven't a remote clue about boat design, let alone the engineering involved. You'll use a lot less materials if you follow plans and best of all, it'll float where it's supposed to and best of all actually look like a boat. I have several plans for small, very simple powerboats in the $50 range as do many designers and plans houses, like Glen-L. A real set of plans also means you will not need a front end loader to haul the thing around, nor a 250 HP engine, just to do 10 MPH, which is the direction you're heading with that contrivance.

    This isn't meant as a personal dig at you Fshngrandslam. You're obviously young and intrigued. It takes years of study to learn how to design boats. I have one set of plans that you could build in a long weekend. So do many others. Buy a set of plans.
     
  9. Fshngrandslam
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 24
    Location: Virginia

    Fshngrandslam New Member

    I did get a set of plans started using them and got all confused and at was my problem looked at a trends boat he built and went off of that same concept trying to make this one work but with alot of modification. Looks like this one was just not ment to be and should have just saved my money
     
  10. Fshngrandslam
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 24
    Location: Virginia

    Fshngrandslam New Member

    Thanks for the offer but I'm looking more for a John boat with high sides and 14' long
    I want something that's easy to fish on
     
  11. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 1,604
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I should be fine boat for calm shallow lakes and for

    fishing and duck hunting or 'camping on the water'. Almost more a barge than a "boat" which is not a bad thing.

    You need another 2x4 at the stern and then 2x4 gunwales on top of the stern 2x4, then one brace on top midships and another brace across the top where the bow angle starts.

    Use Bond-O mixed with sawdust to fill gaps and smooth before applying the fiberglass.

    One use I see for this is a "duck hunter's box". These are wooden boxes sunk in shallow water. Some mysterious force of nature and voodoo suction keeps them stuck to the bottom even though the interior is dry.

    For what this boat will/should be used for the "notched chine logs" weakness should be OK, as long as the 1/2" 5 ply plywood of floor and sides are well screwed/glued to the Chine Logs.


    This is more of a comfortable(easy to add little touches by attaching to wood framing) "sit and fish" boat than boat for lots of traveling around in.
     
  12. Dave Gentry
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 31
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    Location: Charlottesville, Virginia

    Dave Gentry Junior Member

    Here ya go, simple as pie to build, plans are cheap, boat is well proven. There's a shorter version, too (the Jon Jr).
    You can likely re-use a lot of your materials.

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jonsboat/index.htm

    [​IMG]

    Michalak's Pole Punt would be an even simpler and less expensive jon boat style option: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/polepunt/index.htm

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. AsterixDeGaul
    Joined: Mar 2011
    Posts: 38
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    Location: Toronto

    AsterixDeGaul Junior Member

    At first I thought this was a joke :/

    Fshngrandslam ... ditch that thing and start over (NOT joking... or laughing)

    I think Dave Gentry has hit the nail on the head ... $30 for the plans!!!

    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jonsboat/index.htm

    Should be a simple and fast build ... Good luck
     
  14. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    You are absolutely right, but perhaps he should finish, and try it out.
    There is nothing like profound failure to educate a person.

    In many cases ( me included) - unless I see something happen, it often doesnt 'click'. I am a great believer in 'profound failure' as a learning technique.

    As long as it gets tried out in calm, close to shore conditions where getting wet doesnt matter, it would be a great and cheap learning experience.

    If someone doesnt understand plans, making an attempt can be the best explanation.

    If you decide to try finishing it FGSLM, take the heavy timber off the pointy floor, and then bend the point off the ground as far as it will go without breaking. ( use bricks and stuff to hold it in place.)

    Then, glue and screw some more panels to the sides, so that a lot of the panel sticks out past the pointy floor. Bend them inwards to a point, and tie the point together with wire or cable ties.

    It will result in gaps between the 'floor' and the bent sides, which you can staple thick nylon material over , so you can lay fibreglass inside.

    If you get that far, I will be happy to tell you the next steps.

    However, if you abandon the project after those steps, you will have at least understood two things every boat builder has to learn.
    1) When you bend flat panels, they produce strange shapes
    2) Fibreglass is very expensive, and needs practice to become familiar with.

    Go for it !
     

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  15. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    The only well designed part is the bottle of Coca Cola in the aft bench.
    Lister
     
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