Finisterre, S&S, Allied Seabreeze and overhangs

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by CapKos, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Wolf Hound
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Wolf Hound Junior Member

    IIRC, Carleton Mitchell claimed that Finisterre was not designed as a rule-beater.

    She was designed to be a comfortable wooden cruising boat, and was beamy for her era. Mitchell called her "fat."

    Maclear and Harris designed the Seabreeze for Allied, and had worked with Francis Kinney, Al Mason and Olin Stephens, all of whom had made contibutions to Finisterre's S & S design.

    The Seabreeze was essentially a fiberglass Finisterre. The early ones were very high-quality builds, with their 380 pound bronze centerboards and quite a few monel accouterments.

    PAR, have you sailed on a Mason 43 or 44? What do you think? Not strictly a CCA boat, but certainly of that ilk.

    Wolf Hound
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    If you give me a Ron Holland, I would become your friend for life.

  3. bpw
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    bpw Senior Member

    Perhaps you meant to say ocean crossing on a fast powerful boat is easier and most certainly is not a requirement.

    Much better to be sailing now on the slow boat you can afford, than sailing in 10 or 20 years on the "perfect" boat.

    Plenty of CCA type boats cruising all over the world and doing just fine, in fact there is a very lovely wooden S&S across the dock from me at this moment that has spent the last few years on a trip from Spain to Puerto Mont Chile via South America and the Chilean channels.

    Though if the money is there, I would agree that a Cal 40, or something even newer is a better boat.
  4. Wolf Hound
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    Wolf Hound Junior Member

    The lighter boats, while faster in some conditions, bounce around more and hence tend to be less comfortable and less what the old-timers called "confidential" (which I took to mean "confidence-inspiring").

    Wolf Hound
  5. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Funny how these seakindliness/seaworthiness threads always degenerate into people assuming that their own personal tastes are the only valid ones!

    I've sailed on a modified Finnisterre. It was a wonderful boat, extremely well sailed (national ocean racing Yacht of the Year several times and a liveaboard cruising home for decades) and understand the owners' passion for the boat - but personally in the conditions we sailed in, I found it wet and not particularly comfortable. My first ocean race was on a RORC (equivalent to CCA) type boat and I found its slow-motion bounce to be sickening.

    Surely it is reasonable that some people may find boat X to be the most comfortable, and others may find boat Y to be the most comfortable?
  6. Wolf Hound
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    Wolf Hound Junior Member

    Tastes vary, of course; different ships, different long splices.

    Nevertheless, all other things being equal, more mass does tend to dampen motion.

    But, that's paid for in other ways, so one must take the trade-offs he finds most agreeable, and try to stike a balance that best suits his own preferences.

    Wolf Hound
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "I agree that in the good season it is possible to cross the Atlantic with nearly any boat, but should be good to have a boat able to resist any weather."

    North Atlantic in FEB? Aircraft carriers and the old Queens went with great caution, and get smashed at times.

    Its more realistic to want a boat that can survive a storm , a big storm , in the lat and season most would cruise.

    Any weather ?, inside a sealed soda bottle is best.
  8. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Its many people think they need a tank to sail , just so they can be safe in any weather.

    Tanks take the pleasure out of sailing.

    The typical ocean rated production boat is perfectly safe offshore.

  9. u4ea32
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    u4ea32 Senior Member

    My opinions based on my experience:

    Overhangs matter very little to motion, its primarily a sense of style.

    Its not really light or heavy displacement that matters, its displacement per waterplane area, and beam and its distribution, that matters.

    A light, moderate, or heavy boat on a long, narrow waterplane has a very nice motion.

    Any boat displacement -- light, moderate, or heavy -- with a short, wide, and unbalanced waterplane area will have a horrible motion at sea.

    The current fashion of narrow bows and wide bouyant sterns is simply hideous.

    The late RORC and early IOR designs with all the bouyancy in the middle were very nice at slow speeds, but awful at hull speed and higher.

    CCA encouraged moderate boats with moderate beam and displacement, so they tended to have decent motion and speed, while being moderately free of handling vices.

    But all CCA boats are O-L-D.

    To me, its again looking like a new custom build in the only solution.
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