Finished a 24' Wa'apa

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by peterchech, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Glad you resurrected this thread, Collin. Somehow I missed it first time around.
     
  2. peterchech
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    peterchech Senior Member

    Thanks! Gotta agree, I would also get rid of the stupid lugsail and put on a hobie rig next time. Less power (cranking that ama down) = more speed. Given how little I knew about sailing at the time I built that boat, it really performed well. Here's a youtube link to the video I had posted earlier in this thread on flickr:



    I actually gave the boat away recently and now have a 1981 hunter 25 keelboat. I don't have a place to build any more boats at the moment, and it sure is nice to be sailing instead of building :D

    I do miss the experimentation aspect of building outrigger canoes though, I learned so much from the wa'apa and I have so many ideas for improvements and also for a larger cruising version.
     
  3. Collin
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    Collin Senior Member

    You gave the boat away :(

    I've thought about experimenting by making two 8 foot center sections--making a 32' canoe and rigging it with a crabclaw. If you had a place to store it near the water, taking it apart into 2 16' sections would be small enough for a person to carry up on land. I figure another center section would cost me about $50, but then I'd need bigger akas and a new ama.

    You could probably fit 5 or 6 people on a canoe that size and it would probably be the fastest boat on the water.
     
  4. peterchech
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    peterchech Senior Member

    The bigger the better with this kind of boat I think a 32 footer would be great! I wouldn't mess with the crab claw though, I'd do it right and get some proper Marconi sails, unless you just want to experiment. My only advice would be to build light, (I didn't and wound up regretting this) and deck over up the front part of the hull so u don't have to bail constantly.
     
  5. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    GO Collin Go!
    nice vid :)

    DE
     
  6. Collin
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    Collin Senior Member

    Yeah, the reason crab claws and shunting haven't caught on is what benefit do you get for all the work :confused:

    In larger boats you may get some sort of realized benefit, but for small boats, you just seem to get complication.

    A 32ft canoe lends itself to this arrangement, I think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3o3cAwGs3TE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z1c2SPkxx-4

    I'd use a marconi rig if I had one laying around, but it seems so dull! A lug rig has lots of advantages. Why didn't you like it?
     
  7. peterchech
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    peterchech Senior Member

    Those hawaiian rigs in the video seem like they would be perfect, and are what I would do in your situation. I meant the shunting crab claw type sail isn't so great. It was a wonderful invention for people with access only to woven palm sail cloth and other very weak materials, because it allowed far more sail area to be flown given the limitations than pretty much any other sail configuration. However upwind it's pretty terrible (tacking angles of 60 degrees off the wind at absolute best from my understanding) and you really need an experienced crew to get these rigs to work to their potential and shunt without capsizing in good wind. Oh yeah, and they are super complicated and tough to get working/balanced just right. There is a reason that few people sail them regularly, though many have experimented with shunting crab claws.

    DO NOT put a lug rig on an outrigger canoe. Yes it can be done, look at my video I even did it. But after getting far more sailing experience, including a considerable amount of racing, I can tell you that there are almost no advantages to a lug rig. They aren't easier to reef than a marconi, they are harder to reef. They are very tough to flatten and get moving upwind once the breeze is up. They put alot of weight up high where it isn't needed, and the yard is just one more spar that can break. They are effective downwind, that is their only advantage, but I find that I rarely go lower than a reach anyway (speed moves the apparent wind forward) and a marconi with a jib is just fine here. Lugsails work on heavy monohulls which need power, not speed. But on a multi (or any fast hull), the lug is a loaded up sail (powerful) that creates heeling moment, but not speed. Look at that video, and how the ama is nearly buried, just plowing through the water. We are going max 7.5 knots, in about 12 knots of wind. I can tell you from experience, the boat will NOT go faster than ~7.5 knots with the ama to lee, no matter what the wind speed is. Even ama to windward, top speed was about 9 knots with 2 crew hiking way out to counteract the heeling forces. You can do what you want, but take it from someone who bought all the online lugsail hype from (mostly) old farts in puddleducks and similar homemade, slow boats. I tried it, it didn't work well and I got tired of it quick. If you want to go slow and put massive strains on the rigging and akas, then go the lugsail route.

    Now that hawaiian sail, with a jib, would be interesting to try.

    BTW I also experimented with steering oars. They technically work, most of the time (not always though) and so does steering by paddle, but a rudder is a HUUUUGE improvement, esp on a reach and in swells, when the drag from the ama gets you turning circles. I would never build one of these without a rudder, and it was the first addition I made after just a month of sailing the boat with steering oar and paddle only.
     
  8. Timothy
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    Timothy Senior Member

    The 5 metre high aspect lug rigged proa "Free Radical" beat all contenders with other rigs, Marconi, crabclaw, and cat schooner included, at the New Zealand proa congress 2009.
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Looks like she could easily carry a lot more mainsail.
     
  10. Collin
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    Collin Senior Member

    Haha, I knew what you meant.

    I've tried Dierking's Ulua rig with a jib. The jib was boomed and self tending and it was awesome. It was only about 20 sq ft, but it you could definetly feel more speed in general and I felt like the jib added more power than I would have thought. It's a viable option for adding sail area without building a bigger mast for a larger mainsail.

    If I did built a 32' version, I'd have to increase sail area somehow...maybe only to 115 sq ft tho. I wouldn't want to start having to worry about snapping cross beams and huge loads at the mast step.

    I'm also worried about the stress at the bolt connections--the weird stresses on the boat would be magnified.

    I've stretched the pieces out to 32, and that size of boat is huge! I'd definetly want to add some dashboards, or splash guard. I can definetly see the need for some way of keeping the water out when the waves come up.
     
  11. peterchech
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    peterchech Senior Member

    How did you like the Hawaiian type mainsail? I always thought having the foot of sail (basically its an upside down Marconi no?) at the top would make it hard to flatten the sail in breeze, but would make an awesome light air sail, what was ur experience with it Collin?
     
  12. Manie B
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    Manie B Senior Member


  13. Collin
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    Collin Senior Member

    I felt like the shape was nice because it gave great visibility and I only had 1 rope to worry about.

    And as I was sailing it, I wondered if having all that area up high, where the higher wind speed is at, could give some sort of speed advantage.

    The downsides were that I felt a lot of the sail area wasn't giving much drive.

    [​IMG]

    The area around the end of the boom wasn't doing much good. A higher aspect sail would do better.

    Also, the curved boom could be a pain if you had a sail and you glued the boom together and the curves didn't match. The curved boom does look really nice, tho; and you can make it as curved or as straight as you want.

    I'd just go with a straight boom and have it loose footed if I were to make it again. With that arrangement, you'd have a nice simple sail that looked like it would fit on the boat--a marconi would just would look off.

    In high winds, the mast bends and helps to flatten the sail
     
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