fine teak fitting and glueing

This thread will explore the art of fitting and joining teak in a tight seamless fashion. I have seen and read many articles on the techniques used.


My first project will envolve applying 4/4" teak to a glassed over 3/4" ply helm area with some access from behind. So I will be preping this area with a grinder, and using some type of adhesive ( maybe a thicken epoxy ) to achieve a perm bond. Utilizing some mechanical fastening from behind.


My concerns are if the clearences are to close to offer a place to cleat or support the joints. will making invisable seams, joints be impossible. I would be gluing up at least five different pieces. With the top being composed of three pieces.


My goal is to have that one piece, tabletop type look to the helm. On one hand I'm lucky to have the existing surface to attach to, But on the other I would almost rather having the option to glue and clamp this piece up then install it as one unit.


Anyone with Knowledge on this type of application.


Thanks

 

How do you expect to contend with moisture content changes, within the teak? Embalming teak (epoxy) that thick will likely fail to insure they don't move with moisture content. Even very select rift teak will move. Fasteners will permit movement, certainly enough to open well fitted seams. A veneer deck, entombed in goo, will remain stable, but you'll loose the benefits of a teak sole (excellent footing when wet). Only a few methods work to insure a leak free teak overlay. All of the methods involve caulk seams, which can be reasonably thin in width. A veneer system can be done without seams, but again, total encapsulation must be employed, thin veneers used and most importantly (regardless of method) the teak has to have it's oils removed just prior to epoxy application.

One idea that comes to mind, is to drill horizontally through each piece of decking stock and through bolt the whole lot of them tightly. Bed this as an assembly, in polyurethane, with a caulk seam around the perimeter (also polyurethane). I'd use pretty tight through bolt spacing to guarantee the seams don't open and hope they don't crush each other (raising some seams) when they have substantial moisture gain. This way you can have natural looking teak (oiled or other wise) and the seams will be mechanically kept closed.

 

Thanks for the quick response, but let me clear up a few facts.

This project is planned for the cockpit helm control area, not the decking for the cockpit sole near the helm.

this is a small area maybe 18"w x 10"h x 12" d and is a three sided box that abutts a bulkhead.

As stated before the top consists of three pieces one about 8" x 8" And another triangle 8"l x 3"w and the last one 8" X 10".

There is a hard top and enclosure for weather and uv protection. I hope your concerns are not factors


thanks again Par. sorry for the confusion.

 

For decorative purposes, as a instrument or other panel, you'll have no trouble with teak, though consider another adhesive (plastic resin for example), as epoxy has difficulty with teak (especially thicker pieces like 4/4's). If left natural, the seams will open and close with moisture content (humidity) a little. Through bolted as described above can mitigate this to a great degree on such a small panel. Epoxy encapsulation can also solve the problem, but it will have to be kept in varnish or polyurethane to protect the epoxy from UV damage. Even reflected or indirect sunlight can damage unprotected epoxy, eventually.

 

Par it is my intentions to completely encase this helm pod in epoxy. The area is so small that it shouldn't be challanging to coat with both epoxy and a few varnish top coats.

But my concerns surround the seams and joints. In the projects I have seen the corners are back cleated. then epoxy glued and clamped. Then fastened from behind starting at the cleat into the piece from both directions.

Because my project, will be mounted on an existing helm I will not be able to ensure cabinet quality corners and joinery.

Also trying to keep surface nailing / screwing to a min.

so this is why I was thinking, of both the epoxy bond and the screws from the back. Because the joinery be the focus of the piece. I want to make sure they don't open up down the road.

Also worthy of mention, I'll be rounding out the corners. So the 90's have got to be tight all the way through the miter.

Thanks for your help

 

Here's is a good link.
http://bertram31.com/parts/console/zc.htm

very close to the look I'm after.

 

Gee I thought this thread would peak more interest. How about we get pics and methods on your projects.
Surely we have all glued up and finished a couple pieces of teak or some other exotic.

 

Peaked my interest. I really don't understand why embedding solid wood in epoxy is so important to achieve anything.
I would never do that. The project, as I understand it, is to dress out a box shape. The suggestion to make the panel (s) in one piece and then attach it makes complete sense.
If I understand right, some pieces will lie at 90 degrees to the grain at the end, a method called bread-boarding by cabinetmakers--- and then mitered at the corners, all without expansion joints. 4/4 thiickness too.
This method is not going to work well. I question the use of such thick stock.
What does it achieve? The wood need only swell and contract as it inexorably will unless absolutely buried in thick epoxy everywhere, and there go the corners.
As a pre-built unit, carefully done, such a small dimension as you describe--- without ANY surface sealing process would easily float to its maximum "wet state" dimension if bedded in an adhesive caulk such as 5200.
However, end-capping and mitering with cross-grain pieces will still not work if absolute tightness is desired. The cross ends will push the last parallel piece out, or pull back leaving a gap.
Therefore, if mitering the corners, it would be a good idea to allow a 1/16" space between the body of the piece and all mitered margin pieces (the cross-grain end board could have a false joint in the traditional way of rabbeting the edge). The corners could then be lap-mitered and glued as a seperate assembly and then set in caulk around the larger piece without any fasteners except into the ply below. Bungs can be matched very well by careful attention to detail. Why secure from underneath?
I wouldn't use 4/4 either, but maybe 3/4" for the body area. Then I would spline the pieces together with a 8mm plywood spline buried into each adjacent piece no less than 1/2", epoxied. The ply has cross-grain tensile strength, whick will keep the joints together well.
I may be missing some details, so if you see a problem with what I've said, just say so.

Alan

 

Hey Alan, I've been a little pre occupied with my stringer and engine bearer problems, so please forgive the delayied response.

Did you by any chance check out that link?

I'm thinking that if I use a 4/4" stock it will be more stable ( unsure but a thought ) Second, I thought if I beded it in epoxy it would be less likely to move. Third, The fastening from behind is just to hold it in place while the epoxy sets up.

I'm looking for a high quality fit and finish with as litte do over potential as possible.


Thanks.

Grady

 

If gluing down teak with epoxy, do not go thick! The stability comes from the teak not being "powerful" enough to stretch the substrate or the epoxy (yes, they can stretch, enough to add 1/100" at each side---- a visible difference. I would recommend, in fact, no more than 1/4" teak over a ply substrate if you want the teak to remain as installed.
If you do so, your magin planks (mitered corners, etc.) will not be affected by the main body of the surface, and any 'bread-boarded" ends will remain well glued. You are simply making plywood thicker, adding a relatively thick face ply. Any thin-ness is acceptable that would stand refinishing, even 1/8".
I checked out the link and I am now sure of what I'm saying. Do not go with thick wood. Any tiny crack in varnish will allow moisture in, which will creep under the varnish and raise it, causing it to whiten and require maintenence. Poly caulk would prevent this, but you wanted tight seams.
Alan

 

Thanks Alan, You seem to have quite a bit more experience with these materials than do I. To this point I have only replaced teak trim as needed and created a few new trim accents all one piece units and all oiled. I did cover an electronics enclosure with a large piece of teak and flush mounted a GPS unit and stereo ( the radio in supported in the enclosure and it's movement restricted. ) This piece is also oiled, which I like because I only have to refinish it every other season.

The helm has a four sided enclosure, so it doesn't take much weather.
I just thought that I may not want to be refinishing a nonremovable item.

But I am open to suggestions, that pod in the link is what I thought I was looking for BUT??????

Here is my application my helm is 5/8" marine ply then glassed over. It has been the place were things have been mounted over the years and where my compass currently sits. Would like to freshen it up close some of those mounting holes ( some rather big ). And move my flush mounted compass higher in line of sight so that I might use a combi card (readable from the edge ). So please throw me a couple of ideas


Thanks much for you advice

Grady

 

Nothing would beat the look of a helm with sides of vertical bead-edged staves of teak and maybe a removable formica top (maybe black or grey or cream?) surrounded by a scuppered raised teak frame (so things don't roll off too easily). I'd proudly show the oval head screws edges at the margins of the formica that fastened the top down so that it could be removed any time easily and replaced/modified if need be. With epoxied edges and underside, a bit of non-adhesive bedding would form the gasket.
The staves can be
2" wide, glued to 3/8" ply and screwed on the four sides from the inside, or screwed and bunged from outside. Vertical corners well rounded and flush with the staved surfaces could be put on last to ensure an easy fit.
Instruments and switches and so forth could be high up and aft-facing if the top had two levels, compass on top, small tray-like area in front of instruments/guages, etc.

A.