Finally remembered an example... A canoe of all things.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Schoonner, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    The Sadler 24's and 29's were the first and as far as I know only, sailing monohulls in their size range that have positive flotation built into their two part hull construction by injecting a closed cell foam between the inner liner and outer hulls--

    A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of their owners ---
     
  2. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Hope comments above help.

    Porta
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Sadler boats have a very thick foam core that provides enough flotation to make them unsinkable. It takes a lot of interior space, but is a simple solution. Inflating bags and other systems make little sense. They would need a huge amount of maintenance and care. Also, the cost would be very high, just price a self inflating life raft, which is made by the thousands. The bags in a boat need to be custom made.
     
  4. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    Ahh!! I like that foam solution!! So, they have enough reserve buoyancy that they don't sink even when swamped?!? That would make it easy to just seal off all the wiring to the engines and create snorkels so that in case of emergency, the engine could actually be run anyways for at least a few hours, or even a day or two, though if you are aboard a swamped boat that just keeps getting pummeled by waves I would imagine that hypothermia might be a problem. Extra inflated flotation might help keep you drier.

    I wish I knew which boats would have this foam core, and which did not.

    BTW. four wheel drive vehicles often run engines underneath water to cross rivers and such.http://youtu.be/_lBakSKg8cA (You can see the red snorkel top sticking up past the roof of the car)
     
  5. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    As I prev. posted Sadler are the only monohulls in their size that i'm aware of that has this positive flotation feature. If you look them up they posted their test results when flooded and making use of the positive flotation feature-- the boat seems to still be functional as a sailing vessel and was able to sail back to home port. A great feature for blue water work in a smaller yacht for sure. Your yacht becomes your lifeboat.
     
  6. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Very interesting movie clip, that's more than what I thought what sounds like a diesel engine could tolerate on the Jeep. Still, that is only few minute time period in the clip. I wonder how continuous a complete submersion could be tolerated without some problems. Also we don't know if engine problems related to the submersion developed at a later date. There must be a reason IC boat engines are run in dry engine rooms.

    P.
     
  7. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    Cool! I will have to look at their data. This is getting really interesting. I will start drawing soon.

    I don't know about materials though, Such as, what materials will deteriorate in salt water, and maybe even get eaten by sea life.

    I am considering a wrap around that attaches to the upper 1/3rd of the hull by pulling it underneath the boat, stretching a boot around the hull and tying it off to the railings, bulwarks, bowsprits, whatever, so that it is snugged tightly against the upper part of the hull. Then when it inflates, it sticks out along the entire perimeter like a life raft stretched around the hull, or like a life raft with a sailboat stuck in the middle of it. Yes, it will have to be custom made, but won't be too difficult with most hulls I've seen. The flare of the hull itself keeps it from coming off over the top, and it can be tied in place to keep it from falling off.

    The beam to length ratio stays the same that way, and the only thing to get in the way is an outboard, maybe a swimming ladder, and maybe the rudder, so maybe there won't be as much lift at the transom. Each boat is different so it HAS to be custom fitted, but I want to minimize the drag and maximize inflation which should be easily accomplished by essentially turning it into an inflated bulwarks.

    The problem is that it should be sealed to keep out moisture so that it doesn't trap moisture, or it should only be installed when the boat is going out for a cruise.
     
  8. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    Many Many off road vehicles are equipped with this kind of snorkel system. They are mainly used for fresh water and I've never seen anyone get dumb enough to try it at the beach, but painting the engine with different paints will make a huge difference.

    The whole thing will come down to whether or not you want your boat to be your life raft, and what you will do to keep as many of your components safe/salvageable when you get back to home port.
     
  9. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Military vehicles have been using snorkel systems for decades; in salt water too.
     
  10. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    I wonder if there is a way to make my safety device non-patentable, as I believe that most safety devices should be treated. I want people to expound on my ideas, not feel like I might threaten them with lawyers if they make a safety device that's works out better. :!:
     
  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Patents are voluntary. There is no Law that prevents an inventor from putting his work in the public domain
     
  12. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    The SOB had no business doing that, just a bully. It's surprisingly difficult to swamp a canoe provided the occupant doesn't panic. If the paddler sits on the floor it will just bob over the waves like a cork. It's usually the paddler panicking that causes the capsize. Of course surf is another matter . . .
     

  13. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    Idk, the waves he was making were coming from two sides, one after the other, and were pretty large. If I let one of them broadside me I'm fairly certain I would have been tossed out of the canoe. I was sitting in the back on the seat provided, and water was getting in over the gunwales, but I used the paddle to make the lightened front end hit the center of the waves he was creating. It was a powerful boat he was using, so the waves he made were probably 4 foot high and stuck up like the pyramids. Every time I let the bow get hit by two at once water came in the canoe and it scared me.
     
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