Fiberglass Scantling for Hurricane in Selway Fisher Micro 8

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by mtumut, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Fortunately maritime law does not depend on the opinion of a few but of what technicians have raised and states have pledged to demand in their territories and in their seas.
    Orangutans do not know but boats, small or large, should be safe.
     
  2. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    I think this are dangerous waters. The RCD and associated ISO standards can be applied to any boat and a result will come out. We can argue if the ISO standards are to conservative or to liberal or if their implications are realistic or not, but it is pointless. They are a set of mandatory rules for vessels to be sold in Europe and designers have to use them to demonstrate compliance (or use other designing rules as determined by national authorities since the ISO set is still not complete).

    Anyhow home builds are excepted, as are dedicated sport vessels, hydrofoil vessels and others. In Europe there are states that do not care what an individual builds at home and others that require a full documentation and survey of the build up to RCD or other standards and everything in between with the added complication of small or big boats.

    As for big small boat voyages it is up to the individual to say what they tolerate and consider safe. The Berque brothers http://www.sansboussole.com/ crossed the Atlantic several times on small boats but not anyone can or wants to do it like they did.
     
  3. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    I didn't think these standards had any bearing on Maritime Law. As Rumars said, they don't apply to individuals building and sailing boats they deem to be seaworthy for their own purposes. For example, the men that participate in the Jester Challenges. Most of those craft would not and need not qualify as category A or B, but are generally considered to be fit for their purpose of crossing oceans by able single-handed sailors.
     
  4. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Apparently you know well the rules for "single-handed boats", and thats why you mention them, but other regulations require different things.
    This is not a simple issue, has many facets. It is easy to think of the little world that one knows, but no one can generalize without knowing more. In my country, for example, if you want to build your own boat you must comply so many rules that, in fact, the amateur construction does not exist. And of course, you should choose a design category for your boat.
    Things are as they are and not by much repeat a thing it becomes true.
     
  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I am not aware of any rules for "single-handed boats" in any country. Spain allows construction of traditional boats without the heavy regulation that it has for modern designs though.
     
  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Eramos pocos y pariĆ³ la abuela (funny phrase denoting surprise in Spanish).
    Honestly, Gonzo, you think you know better than I do Spanish law?. Because I think you never applied any regulation or Spanish or American or any other country. Knowing that there are regulations is one thing but quite another thing to know how to apply them and that is where, I fear, you do not get.
     
  7. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    I think we are getting into semantics. My point is, if I want to build a boat or chose a boat to sail single handed across an ocean, I should not be overly concerned with categories A, B, C, D because they don't apply to my particular circumstances. I would be concerned with the same physical science obviously, but my objectives and concerns would be different and more specific than what those standards were written for. Personally, I would be safer in a smaller boat than what could qualify as a category A or B. I believe most of the Jester Challengers would have a similar analysis for their own personal circumstances.
     
  8. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    This could also have something to do with differences between common law systems and legal codes. My understanding is that in Canadian Law, anything is permitted until it is forbidden. In other systems, perhaps everything is forbidden until it is permitted. I don't know to much about such things, and thank goodness, I still live in a country where I don't need to.
     
  9. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Yes, I think we can agree on some of the things you say. But the solution is simple, make a consultation with the appropriate agency in the administration of your country, tell them what you want to do, and you'll have the answer. I can not say another thing, I'm not like others who, without having made an official project in his life, dare to say how are the laws in force in countries that are not theirs.
     
  10. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    He is in Canada. You build a boat, pay for the registration and go sailing.
     
  11. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    The RCD has produced some unfortunate effects in some countries, but it has nothing to do with the RCD per se. Different nations have different rules. I do not know how Spain does it but I know for example of a country in the EU where amateur builders are treated the same as professionals. If you do not show ISO compliance to the national authority before you start building, the craft can never be registered in that country. All you can do is find a flag of convenience and hope it is not too costly.
    As for what safety at sea is that remains debatable. The RCD's categories and associated ISO are like any other classification rule, DNV, LR, etc. They say this is good, this is bad, and so on. You can debate if you like them or not, there will always be other people who think differently.
     
  12. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    If bureaucracy allows people to sail off over the horizon in an 8' boat, regardless of its construction details, clearly the rules need more work, at least if the intent of such regulations is the preservation of life.
     
  13. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    Need the warl' ken?
     
  14. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I don't really care if people try to sail around the world in a bath-tub, but do not encourage them by talking about how best to construct the tub ! Otherwise you are a bit like a spectator encouraging a suicidal bridge jumper to get on with it.
     

  15. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    Your energy would be better spent telling people not to drive cars.
     
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