Fiberglass Scantling for Hurricane in Selway Fisher Micro 8

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by mtumut, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    You overwhelm me with such questions. To end soon and not nag others, I will answer what I think you are asking me : No, I do not know how to build boats in plywood or I need never know the price of epoxy, coremat, etc.
    "Sustainability" you mean easy, inexpensive maintenance?, I do not know either. Logically you know many things I do not know and vice versa.
     
  2. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    I think we are both suffering from communicating electronically and not in person. Cheers.
     
  3. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

  4. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    You don't know me from Jack.
    The comparison is just silly.

    You could have done so much better.

    "Bottom line is, if mtumut wants to risk his life in a flimpsy fiberglass boat, it's his life, his responsablility, his choice, no matter what advize has been given/taken. It's up to him........"

    And this statement is useless, since it could have come from MR. Obvious.
     
  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    People like him end up making others risk their life when they get in trouble. Look at what happened to the bonehead that was going to cross the ocean in one of those clear balls you walk inside.
     
  6. Westel
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    Westel Senior Member

    Of course the comparrison is silly, that's rather obvious, the smiley should have indicated that.
    Mr. up-church and mother Theresa have nothing in common I guess.

    It was all tongue in cheek, not to insult you upchurchmr.

    Sometimes we need to be reminded to the obvious........
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There's an undertow of subject matter that sometimes prevent me from participating, in this type of discussion. What level of responsibility do I want to have, if I offer some scantling advice to someone that clearly doesn't understand, the implications of their desires or planned actions.

    I do think that in an open forum, a no real burden argument can be made, but this isn't the point. Professional responsibility tends to prevent me at least, from suggesting a poster looking wanting submarine scantlings or other details. This is a sterile and impersonal environment, so I don't know the real reasons behind any particular question. I just elect to not provide information, without a fairly clear idea of what a poster might need.

    Fairly frequently we get students, looking for homework help and I don't offer much, plus I usually and blatantly ask, because they need to learn, not skim the web for a quick way out. Alarmingly, we get questions about ocean crossing craft of ridiculously small sizes or "sea worthy" 12' dinghy recommendations. These generally come from those that have never been in a small boat in a big sea and again, I don't make a suggestion, more often suggesting they need to get more experience before making this type of decision. Plenty of 55 gallon drum raft and pontoon boat wantabes, ditto previous reply approaches. At some point you have to ask yourself how you'd feel if an inexperienced adventurer, took your advice to heart and drowned himself and family, for lack of common sense and experience, but trusting your recommendations. Legally, I don't think attempting to prove "standing" has a rat's butt chance, in this format, but there's more to life than a legal responsibility. I don't want to lay down and try to sleep, knowing I just offered someone enough information, to complete their destiny toward an unwitted self destruction. A professional has the responsibility to at least try to prevent this if possible. We can't stop or prevent fools from rushing in, but we can recognize them, spank their butt and send them crying home to momma.
     
  8. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    Are we saying this boat should never have been designed in the first place?
     
  9. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    What a splendid idea, and I dare say he has settled on it. Much better than the hurricane death-wish.
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm sure the original commission satisfied the client's desires and there's no reason, that it shouldn't be built, but as a stock plan from what the OP might think it's capable of, some questions need to be answered and a rough SOR established to check suitability.

    This is the OP's last post and it's clear his idea of 16' ocean crossing craft is greatly misunderstood.

    Thee have never been "tons" of these types of craft, nor plans available for them. The few that have plans haven't disappeared and plans pricing also hasn't changed all that much. In terms of the used boat market, well prices are starting to recover, but slowly and again there's never been a large market for Cat. A 16' boats.

    All this suggests what I've suspected all along, a grotesque lack of experience. Anyone that's been in a force 8 gale, aboard a micro cruiser can attest, it's not an environment that you can tolerate for very long. I've been in mid ocean storms, that have lasted for days, though never in a small boat and even aboard a large one, it's not pleasant. I can only imagine the horror of a 11' boat in a 3 day storm, no possibility of seeking shelter, calm water and what it's crew must endure.

    This is the vision of a romantic soul, thinking they can build a cheap, small enough to build in his mother's house bedroom, a world voyaging machine, that they mistakenly think will cost next to nothing to operate and bring him home again safely. It's this set of ideas that need a reality check. I often suggest they take a inflatable raft down to the beach on a windy day, when the tide is rolling in. They need to row or motor out to the breakers and make every effort to remain in them for an hour or two. This will give them an idea of what being in a small boat in a big sea will be like. A literal reality check and if they ask themselves honest questions, about how long they can tolerate this type of motion, well hell, build a Micro 8 and go for it. Personally, I think the OP is a teenager looking for an escape from the world, without any real concept of what he's asking or wanting to undertake.

    It's the responsibility of the experienced and professionals, to insure the inexperienced understand the realities of their desires.
     
  11. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Westel,

    I'm a little slow sometimes. And a lot more literal from my engineering background.

    :)
     
  12. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The OP is also the architect of the DIY Antarctica Sail-drone. That was last month's idea.
     
  13. Westel
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    Westel Senior Member

    No problem upchurchmr, I've never been accused from "speed thinking" so........;);)
     
  14. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    PAR, I agree with most of what you are saying, but I don't see the harm in discussing in general terms how design and construction in plywood might be adapted to construction in fiberglass.

    I thinks it's worth discussing why smaller boats are less comfortable in very large waves and extreme wind, and spray. If the objective is to build a boat of minimum displacement or cost I don't see the need to go to such extremes as 8 feet in length, especially if one intends to carry provisions for several months. I do think there are still a lot of advantages to smaller boats, but most of these should be achievable without going to much less than 18 feet. I think for solo sailing, if costs are to be minimized in the interest of not just affordability, but also such things as autonomy, and sustainability, I think it is highly desirable to keep the boat small, say the size of a Contessa 26, but there is probably a range of +- 8 feet depending on various constraints and tradeoffs, such as the fitness and ability of the skipper, and whether or not for that particular skipper it might be easier to keep an 18 foot in good working order, and afloat, or a 26 foot boat, or a 32 foot boat. I think it depends on the individual.

    I am not that familiar with the categories A, B, and C, but I don't think they are indicative in themselves for what size of boat is most appropriate for a specific individual wanting to cross an ocean in a sailboat in a manner which is most safe, affordable, autonomous, and sustainable for their particular needs. I would agree that bellow 16 feet or 14 feet, a shorter length starts to become more of a novelty than anything else, as it results in something slower, heavier, and more expensive and difficult to handle and care for than something longer.

    But I'm not sure what most of any of this has to do with adapting a plywood design to fiberglass, in general terms.
     

  15. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I don't see any harm in a discussion either, though the OP is looking for a build method conversion, more so than a discussion on the ideas merits.

    More than length, it's hull form type and its volume, for anything to be considered a small passagemaker. A couple of feet difference in length, may mean you can have a real sea berth, but more importantly, the volume may double, which offers storage. This volume thing can't be over emphasised enough. You need to have a minimum of a gallon of water per day, plus food, supplies and other consumables and equipment. I don't care what kind of 8' boat has been designed, you just don't have the volume to do much.

    In fact, I think it's irresponsible to allow a client to force your hand on a commission, toward an untenable position. Simply put, I'd have walked away from a commission for an 8' world cruiser design, regardless of the fee. The reason you come to a professional for this type of design isn't just the hydro and engineering skills, but the realities of the concept as well. Some, unless you're attempting break a record, are just unreasonable and you have to walk away.

    Cat. A is an off shore, deep water vessel, Cat. B is near shore, Cat. C is semi protected waters and Cat. D is protected waters.
     
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