Fiberglass Scantling for Hurricane in Selway Fisher Micro 8

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by mtumut, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. mtumut
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 7
    Location: ISTANBUL

    mtumut Junior Member

    I bought Selway Fisher Micro 8 plans. I want to learn the amount of layers or layers count of cheapest 800 grams per square meters weight glass fiber rowing and cheapest grade liters of polyester needed FOR one square meters of boat FOR immense hurricane at north atlantic.

    If I would be needed to buy one grade better glass or polymer , at least 14 times more expensive.

    I dont trust and afford plywood.

    umut
    istanbul
     
  2. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 2,943
    Likes: 112, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    8' and hurricane in the North Atlantic don't work together.

    Cheapest construction and Hurricane don't work together.

    Plywood, epoxy, and glass does work together, unless you want to throw this thing away soon.
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 473, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Micro 8 is a unique (and foolish) design. It does work, but it doesn't do anything well, which is typical of the micro cruiser venue.

    As to converting the taped seam scantlings to some form of 'glass, well you'll have to make the adjustments, or hire someone to make them for you. As a single skin GRP, it's be considerably heavier than the taped seam version.

    As to surviving storms in one, trust me, you don't want to be anywhere near them in an 8' boat. This is the smallest of dinghy sizes and bearing suitable for a modest chop. Though the Micro 8 has been designed for passages, you don't have room to fart, let alone take on any type of sea, especially survival condisions in a full gale. In short, there's no amount of laminate that will help in a hurricane on this boat. The boat might survive, but you will not. Imagine falling off a 30' tall wave and crashing down into the trough below. Again, the boat might tolerate this abuse, by you can't.

    Maybe you should just tell us what you're trying to do and what you want in terms of boat requirements. Lastly, a taped seam plywood boat will be cheaper and faster to build, than a GRP build.
     
  4. Jamie Kennedy
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 541
    Likes: 9, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 117
    Location: Saint John New Brunswick

    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    How do you plan to build it in fibreglass without plywood. Would you make flat panels and stitch and glue them together? You could build it light, and then add more glass where it is most needed. Should end up a little heavier, a little thinner, a little stronger, but less stiff, if that makes any sense.
     
  5. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 14,137
    Likes: 539, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    The boat may survive, but most likely you will be killed by hitting everything inside the boat. I suppose you could have some kind of straps to keep you in place. However, even the accelerations involved should be enough to cause internal organ damage.
     
  6. mtumut
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 7
    Location: ISTANBUL

    mtumut Junior Member

    Designer Welsford had been advised to me to find a flat ground , lay the glass , cut it to desired shape and than wet , after all when everything dries , use the fiberglass as you do with plywood.

    I dont know the US prices but one liter polyester resin and hardener costs less than a dollar here. 800 grams rowing cost 1.35 dollars or less per square meters.

    Plywood is extremelly expensive here and transporting , cutting it loud , are the biggest problems. For cutting the transportation costs , you have to buy all the plywood panels together where I cant afford.

    I know 1.5 meters or say 60 inches long boat crossed the atlantic east to westt and west to east. They survived from big storms and nothing happened to crew.

    I think its a fantasy in your mind to die from internal bleed due to forces.

    Fathers Day boat was 12mm thick or say half an inch.

    How many 800 grams rowing glass fiber layers do I need to use for reach 12mm thickness. May be 4 or 5 ?

    My intention is to collect information to be able to go anywhere I want to go. May be I will never build a boat and jump to plane to go to Tahiti.24 hours or less , not 6 months in the sea :)

    Umut
     
  7. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    What's the difference in falling off a 30ft wave and ditching in the through below for the skipper inside an 8ft boat or in a 30 ft boat, assuming that the boat survives ?
    In an 8 ft boat the skipper will die from internal bleedings and in a 30 ft boat the skipper will be up and running in no time ?
    Looks like "selective physics" to me:D

    Sven Yrvind must be one hell of a dumb#ss then to declare that small boats are safer than big boats in surviving a storm but, what would he know, he only sailed a zillion miles in small boats in every imaginable weather possible.:D
     
  8. mtumut
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 73
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 7
    Location: ISTANBUL

    mtumut Junior Member

    Small boats and small politics and small politicians and their clappers always goes hand in hand. They always want to stop you to think,act,dream or live. When I entered to internet , there were tons of small , less than 4 meters long ocean crossing boats and plans All dissapeared , others prices increased 6 times or more. Fiberglass is the biggest taboo of intelligence services.
     
  9. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 14,137
    Likes: 539, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Westel, it is not selective physics, but the actual laws of physics. A longer, heavier boat will behave different from a boat that is short and light. The same forces will cause different accelerations.
    mtumut: There is no "World Conspiracy". I am also sure that intelligence services are not having any kind of "taboo" about fiberglass. The proof is that most boats, bathtubs, aircraft parts, etc. are manufactured in fiberglass. If you think you are right, build the boat and go sailing. Talk is cheap, but doing something and succeeding is the best proof. It worked well for the Wright brothers.
     
  10. gggGuest
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 821
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 76
    Location: UK

    gggGuest ...

    Not so well for Lieutenant Thomas Selfridge though.
     
  11. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member

    Gonzo,
    In a bigger boat there is lots more space to be tossed around so the chance of injury is not smaller but bigger I would think.
    Wave energy has to go somewhere so a bigger boat needs to be percentwise much stronger, heavier than a smaller boat to survive the same wave.
    Comfort is a different matter and seems often to be confused with safety....
    A skipper can get exhausted quicker in a small boat and it can cause a safety issue.....but this has in fact very little to do with the capability of the boat to survive a storm.
    As you said, best thing is to try it and see what happens.

    A forum is an open place for idea's/projects, it easely can turn into a place where only experts are left over and conversation will die because there is nothing to disagree anymore among those left over......

    So far, including myself, nobody has tried to answer mtumut's question but focused on the adventure itself in an 8 ft oceancruiser......
    Anyone out here knows the answer to the original question ?
     
  12. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 2,943
    Likes: 112, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    If you want the answer to the original question you need to go to the designer.

    Not the rest of us concerned for your health.
    At work we have an old saying - If you won't accept the answer don't ask the question.
    It is a popular sport there to ask a question and reject all answers until you get one you like. Not always a successful strategy.

    Good luck

    I did note that an 8' boat is just a little bit bigger than an appropriate sized coffin.
    But what do I know. I wouldn't take 8' on a local lake. I wouldn't want to die of boredom.
     
  13. Jamie Kennedy
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 541
    Likes: 9, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 117
    Location: Saint John New Brunswick

    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    I think any boat will have trouble in a real hurricane.

    I like John Welsford's idea if building it entirely in fibreglass, to do the entire layup on the floor, and then stitch and glue like plywood. Fibreglass has about 3 times the density of plywood, so if you go just as thick it will be 3 times as heavy. I think you should go only half as thick, and end up only 1.5 times as heavy.

    I think you want to go something like...

    1. Cloth + Resin e.g. 200g + 200g = 0.40 kg
    2. Mat + Resin e.g. 450g + 900g == 1.35 kg
    3. Roving + Resin e.g. 800g+800g = 1.60 kg
    4. Mat _ Resin e.g. 450g + 900g == 1.35 kg
    5. Roving + Resin e.g. 800g+800g = 1.60 kg
    6. Mat + Resin e.g. 450g + 900g == 1.35 kg
    7. Cloth + Resin e.g. 200g + 200g = 0.40 kg
    =============================
    9.4 kg per square meter, and about 6.2mm thick = 1/4"

    I don't think I would go thicker than that for your flat panels. Should be strong enough, and stiff enough, once you have all the bulkheads and storage compartments in place. You can always reinforce it later.

    I think you will also want some closed cell foam and carpet on the inside. This will provide some additional buoyancy, thermal insulation, sound insulation, and padding.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member


    if Mtumut wanted an opinion about his health concern I'm sure he would have asked a question in that direction. "Concerning" about someone else's health seems to be a new sport...:D
     

  15. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 2,943
    Likes: 112, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I think 2 plys of 6oz cloth will be fine if you keep a positive air pressure in the boat.
    Just like the old shuttle tanks.
    Unfortunately you will need leak proof hatches.

    Just think, a beech ball will never get crushed by a wave, it just floats.

    Jamie,
    Please tell use what strength you are trying to achieve?
    Do you think he should have stiffeners since glass is not very stiff compared to plywood?

    You are messing with this guys life and as far as I can see you have no idea what the strength you are talking about. Pardon me if I'm wrong.

    Oh by the way, should there be a mast post in the cabin to take the mast compression loads?
    How about reinforcement on the rudder attachment.

    Westel,

    The amusing thing about an open forum is that everyone gets to say what they think. No matter what you think.
    There are people who have serious comments, even if you don't like them.

    Some of us are also a**holes, what can I say. Hey that was cute, I tried to spell out what I meant and the software replaced it. Hurray for PC.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.