Its time you took responcability for your actions !!

WE are mostly in control of our own lives and the lives of others around us !!!!!
Breathing dust and fumes is our choice no one else's so if you are silly and stupid enough not to take just a few simply steps to protect yourself and say NO or don't walk away then you are an idiot and if your boss says why then he's a bigger idiot !!Its his responsibility to protect all his workers and make sure the are safe guarded .
I have been in that position many times during my early years of working with fibreglass but I did something about it after 40 or more years and I am still here and have no intentions of giving up for quite some time yet .
I been so high on styrene to the point I almost passed out and grinding glass and using diamond saws and dust was caked in the crap from head to toe for hours but I did something about it !!not only for myself but others I worked with . There are extractors and fans and respirators and gloves and if the company wont supply them simply leave !!
No one is holding a gun to your head!! its your choice, you are in control of your life and what you make of it !! so do something about changing, think of your families as well its there lives you going to effect if you become sick and have to be looked after .
To this day when I work with a bunch of guys and if any of people are not dressed appropriately for what we are doing then I tell them to leave right there and then !!
If they wont look after themselves then they can leave go home to there mothers like little children and she can look after them!!

Do I make myself clear ?? You want to behave irresponsibly them that's your problem !! if thats the information you are going to pass onto the younger workers then you are a danger not only to yourself but to others around you as well !! there are no gold medals and grand first prizes involved not even a thank you most of the time !!

 

The problem is knowing what level of exposure is dangerous.

How do you measure whether your workspace is as safe as possible, or do you always wear a full respirator or mask with clean air supply to be even safer?

 

Some great points there Tunnels,

This is important stuff for those in & around the industry.

It is true that you can simply leave, while this protects that worker it doesn't protect the new & young workers that might take their place. It's the responsibility of the older/knowledgeable/experienced workers to stand up & help effect change. There's a number of ways & usually in a workplace there will be leaders or workers with the presence to make change & negotiate with reason. Sometimes they get outmaneuvered by DH management but at least they tried.

In Aus we have regulations, they don't always work. I know of one multimillion dollar yard/operation that has all the booths etc blah blah but won't turn them on & I see sanding etc filling the workplace with clouds of fine particulate matter, this stuff is crazy & shortsighted as you can bill & profit from tenting & confining this material, as we did decades ago as a standard procedure, our boats don't go there anymore.

One of the problems is that the potential cocktail of fibers, dust, solvents, spray mists, or whatever doesn't "seem" to hurt the worker straight away, so often the harm appears later even decades as in the case with asbestos.

I don't think that turning your back & walking away is a great way to deal with this, the employer will complain that "they cant get staff", "unreliable-unmotivated". Out of these issues there's moral obligations & compliance with good practice can bring profits in lower clean up costs, billing owners for tenting & PPE, consumables & the like. I used to bill for gloves, tyvecks, festo vac bags, disposal etc with a margin applied.

All the best from Jeff.

 

Of course, this sort of information and insistence is easy in hindsight after your 70 years, Tunnels. I started working in the 60's, when most of the particulate and other contaminate health threats were unknown, as were appropriate and commonly (now) used safety measures. It's damn nice to suggest we're at fault now that we know, but what about all those that had no idea at the time? Maybe you where lucky, but many weren't and it's arrogant to suggest it's an individual's fault, when then were unaware of the potential risks.

 

Too right, some stuff there's no safe level & the "harm" is distant in consequences, say Zinc Chromate.... EXPOSURE LIMITS

* OSHA PEL

The current Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) permissible exposure limit (PEL) for zinc chromate (as chromic acid and chromates) is 0.1 milligram per cubic meter (mg/m(3)) of air as a ceiling limit. A worker's exposure to zinc chromate shall at no time exceed this ceiling level [29 CFR 1910.1000, Table Z-2].

* NIOSH REL

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) has established a recommended exposure limit (REL) for zinc chromate of 0.001 mg/m(3) as a TWA for up to a 10-hour workday and a 40-hour workweek. NIOSH considers zinc chromate a potential human carcinogen [NIOSH 1992].

* ACGIH TLV

The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) has assigned zinc chromate a threshold limit value (TLV) of 0.01 mg/m(3) as a TWA for a normal 8-hour workday and a 40-hour workweek. The ACGIH considers zinc chromate a confirmed human carcinogen (A1-substance) [ACGIH 1994, p. 36].

How on earth would a worker measure that without some specialist input?

Below is a link closer to home, I interviewed here but didn't start due to rates & overlap of processes on the line, would have been very convenient though.... till a few months back, these jobs now in Vietnam.

Reading between the lines there's a bit gone wrong on a few levels, it can happen very easily for some work practices to become unsafe...

http://www.coroners.lawlink.nsw.gov...rs/m401601l4/parsons --final findings doc.pdf

Jeff.

 

Its really quite simple !! if you can smell anything in the work place its harmful and don't wait to be told you should know about all and every materials you have in the workshop Be it liquid of powders etc etc .
Be it like carbon monoxide that you cant smell you should look at the situation and draw you conclusions .
Working with Young people they need to be told before it becomes a issue !!
I used to keep a folder and made everyone read all the safety material and then they got a copy of it for themselves to read again , look at and talk about . !!
Even wood sanding dust from some of the woods used no one takes any notice of !! treated timbers are terrible stuff and filled with all kinds of nasty grebes. how many chippies where masks or cloves ?? I never seen one ever where a respirator or cloves !! 99.9% never wash there hands before they eat food so they not only breath but ingest as well with there food !, and as for antifouling's wow not going there at all

 

Are you a good supervisor ?? what really is your job ??

After reading a good part of that coroners report is typical of what goes on in almost every boat yard any where in the world . In my early days I remember the young painter being so high on fumes he walked out into the cockpit of the boat and passed out and went head first over the side of the boat onto the ground and just lay there . , I remember two people working with me doing the glass work of hull and deck join and Marian passing out as she walked to the open hatch way at the back of the hull. No fans no masks and no brains !!
Now days as a supervisor and overseer on projects I make It my mission to go into where people are working purposely without a mask and if I can smell any fumes then everyone is out no questions asked until the situation is rectified !!air in and air out and directed away from the boat or work area !!!
The last mega yacht we worked on I discovered later two guys had been inside one of the glass tanks cleaning with acetone ! no mask and to make a even bigger point had taken a 230 volt lead light with a bulb and been using to see what he was doing . I found the supervisor that had given the guys the job and tore strips off him in front of all the staff for not inspecting what was being done and how the work was being carried out !!
As a supervisor you are responsible for everyone and everything that goes on in the work place specially the guys you have under your control!! if you going to be a useless layabout sitting in a office drinking tea and chatting to the office girl you should be sacked on the spot and sent packing !!

As a factory manager in two places I worked I had the doors removed and my office became a meeting place for guys that needed a sit down after a hard session of glassing,also when any equipment needed to be repaired my table became the work bench as all the tools required were in a tool box in a cupboard in the office . Before the days of cordless of mobile phones so the phone was disconnected and put away in an assessable place in case of emergences , I spent all my time pre-organizing all and everything ready for the next boat to be made and checking stocks of materials and the state of equipment to make sure it was in good state of repair for when it was next required !!. :?::!:

 

Life is more complicated. In this port their are two shipyards.

The shipyard I use is expensive and has roving inspectors who will fine you on the spot for any health and safety infraction.
On the other side of the harbour is a cheap shipyard...mostly do it yourself boatowner types, but also plenty of pro contractors. The reason you bring a boat there is price..no regulation..the place is a mess.
At the good shipyard I regularly pay 1000 euros in extra health and safety , compliance, toxic waste disposal fees for a two week haul out,,antifoul.

Customers complain of this regulation and its cost. Contractors with low class customers looking for cheap prices have little choice but to use the Wild West shipyard. Their men suffer as a result

 

Good one, tunnels. This is a continuation of the discussion in the thread http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fi...building/diy-fiberdust-collector-47028-2.html , so allow me to quote another good post of yours from that other thread, because it is very related to this one:

"Call it a wrong choice of words if you want !!
I am not heartless at all but far from it !!
I am by nature concerned for the young newbies that appear in our work shops that know nothing of the dangers that lurk for the unsuspecting innocence of not being fore warned when they were employed !! For the love of building boats we will endure great hardships as those that have gone before us have done and will continue to do into the future !!
Its the horrible materials we use and the way we use them that's my major concern .
The dust from Diamond blades and high speed air tools and the universal used by everyone every where I've ever been in my travels ,the 4 inch hand held grinder that's a lethal little killer in sheep's clothing !!
If only the grinder manufactures would make a small hand held grinder with a very efficient dust sucker upper that could pipe away all the dust to be disposed of effectively and safely !!
Asbestos used to be the major killer and as we change to other materials so we need to be aware of the hazards of all the other materials we use , not just a few .
I have learned a long time ago spraying catalysed resin with a saturator gun for hours during a day and going home with my hair that felt like I had a hard hat on my head and showering 2 or 3 times with really hot water to get the muck out !!
Later we had health a safely nurses that came to our workshops and stuck little pads on use including our noses to monitor the amount of fall out that we were exposed to during a average work day !!
I was amazed and made my choices there and then to cover up ,wear ear muffs and a 3m respirator with double filters and a cloth covering on my head made from cheese cloth , I had to wear glasses to work so I bought big ones that cover not only my eyes but a fair amount around them ! Then I realised the plastic frames dissolves and softened because of the styrene fumes and wow that what is settling on my face and eyes the wearing of Surgical gloves became second nature and felt naked unless I worn them . I learned also to spray on a angle so the over spray would be blown away from the guys I worked along side !! all these things I worked at alone and I had a following where ever in the factory I worked and the other gun operators could never get it into there thick heads why no one wanted to work with them !!because they were shown many times and told why but wouldn't listen or accept !! I always had to work with 2 teams of laminators between 2 different jobs all the time and became quite used to it as did the guys !!.
Then I went to another company and learned to use a chopper gun so not only resin and catalyst but glass roving and all the ever so fine glass filaments of glass like a glittering dust storm right from the cheeses of roving on the scales all way along the boom loops to the end where the glass was resin saturated and blown onto the surface .
Watching some one spraying in the afternoon sun was a real eye opener and yet more life learning experience I will never forget, again lessons learned and so always the crews I had were made to dress and wear there protective armour as I did !!.
I have seen and done and worked for hours and hours in factories holding and using all and every piece of equipment that gets used . I will still do those jobs even today with a big but attached to it !! I dress and protect myself and if other are close by without protection they are told to leave and not come near till the job is finished !! Will never ask anyone to do any job I will not do myself !!
How many of you do gooder bosses will do that ??
Spraying gel coat is another hazardess job and lots over spray regardless of what equipment is used , but with care and attention to the operation of the equipment and pressure settings it can be minimised to a great extent .
I worked with a very skilled glass man and he died at 46 years of age because he never worn any mask ever when he worked he taught me all there was to spraying gel coats and 2 pot reaction paints ! but it cost him dearly eventually !!
Heartless!! no I am not !! how often do you show and make sure the people you work with are safe doing there jobs ?? do you write the date on your respirator cartridges and make sure others do the same and check that there use by date is not exceeded !!"​

Cheers

 

It is really arrogant to make the claims tunnels does. He must come from a wealthy family where he can afford to walk out of a job. I have found myself working at yards where a cloud of fiberglass was the norm. I had two small children to support and showing up with five broken ribs was what it took to keep my job. Some of us will do whatever it takes to fulfill our responsibilities.

 

I will never kill myself just to please some one else !!

So you are dedicated to your job !! so am ,I but i'm still not going to kill myself to satisfy some fat cat business owner just because he wont look after his staff !!. responsibilities to who ??to your family or then man!! keeping a job !! if that's what it takes to hold down a job the job isn't worth it !!
Me Wealthy !you got to be kidding ! if I had lots money do you thing I would be still doing this job !! I have been married twice and had 6 kids and been raising families since I was 23 years old , my eldest son was due for retirement 5 years ago from the air force . my youngest daughter just started working this year , at nearly 70 years of age this is my time and time to do my thing and get some enjoyment from what I do , working on boats has taken me to quite a few places here and there and seem a lot of stuff during my travels .
One of the places I worked when we were covered from head to toe with glass grinding dust we dived into the lagoon and had a good long swim , came back dried off and ground some more .

 

The responsibility is to the family. A man will do whatever it takes, even work in unhealthy conditions, to satisfy them. If you can afford to be haughty and walk away from a job, you are either irresponsible or wealthy.

 

As Gonzo says...you have to work.

Some jobs are bad...... Carpenters on their hands and knees working on a teak deck , in a tent, while painters are spraying primer. The carpenters could lay down their tools and walk off till the environment clears...then get behind schedule and deal with the penalty contract.

Not all job related injuries are chemical poisoning. Think of teak deck gangs. After 10 years of working on their hands and knees , their bodies are broken

 

You owe it to yourself to stay healthy !!

Be it neither !!! my responsibility to myself and to my families was to stay healthy so I can take care of them always and along the way yes I have earned lots money because of what I have done .
I also used my head as well and if conditions were not satisfactory and the company would not get off the backsides and do something about it I simply walked !! yes walked , no job on this earth is worthy of stuffing you health for , not one !!
You use the word haughty but I see it as just plain common sense who are you making rich ?? yourself or the person you killing yourself for ??? and who is going to say thank you when you laying in bed ??thank you's don't put bread on the table and send you kids to school or buy pretty cloth for you wife !!
We see thing totally different .

 

I dont believe you........................