Ferrocement Ramform Hull design help needed

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by phrogjlf@yahoo, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Boat Design Net Moderator
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    Boat Design Net Moderator Moderator

    In an effort to keep this thread from becoming another "train submarine" or "concrete submarine" thread, the concrete sub posts have been removed. Given how poorly previous threads on that went, it would probably be better to direct further discussion of that to another site.
     
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  2. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    Off of your choice for my plan? Sorry, I fail to see where you have any say-so. This is my project, not yours. If it was your project, your choices would be the ones that matter.
     
  3. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    Off topic and irrelevant to the project at hand.
     
  4. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    I am still asking for help in getting a certified plan for the vessel I worked up as a demonstration base for a semi-permanently moored, offshore liveaboard, eventually intending to expand this design by approximately 200%, for additional hands and equipment.

    It is integral to the overall development of an Integrated Multi-Trophic Aquaculture project, intended for the Gulf of Mexico. The overall project requires someone to remain on-station for extended periods of time, once a permanent mooring is established, preferably through any but the most severe weather, which is why a Ramform hull design was chosen in the first place, rather than a barge, or other design. The Ramform has proven itself in the North Sea both at low relative speeds and as an FPSO.
     
  5. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Well, I'd suggest you look at the proven North Sea designs as your starting point, and talk to the designer, with a view to obtaining plans.
     
  6. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    Among others, I have spoken with Mr. Roar Ramde's nephew. Mr. Ramde is retired and no longer designing, due to his age and health concerns.
     
  7. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    What do you mean by "a certified plan for the vessel"?
    Do you need just help or somebody to fully design your vessel?
     
  8. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    It should meet the applicable standards recognized by such agencies as Lloyd's, or ABS. If I wanted to 'wing-it' I could simply attempt to have it built to the available and calculable specs of such instruction as the FAO books on Ferrocement vessels. However, at that point, it gets relegated to amateur design and has no value as a bargaining tool in trying to further the overall project.
     
  9. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I see. But keep in mind that not only will you have to comply with the rules of a Classification Society, but with many other international regulations applicable to ships in general and probably to a ship with such a "job".
    You do not need help, you need a complete project for a boat that is not easy. That, in my opinion, can not be given by a single person but a team of well-qualified professionals. Contact you with a naval technical office but you can and should, meanwhile, contribute something, a detailed SOR.
     
  10. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    Please define S.O.R., per your intended usage. There are too many acronyms that can apply. Even different ruling bodies that use different meanings. I have to deal with the USCG, USACOE, DOT, as well as other State, Federal and possibly International regulatory agencies, in all of this. The reason I reduced it to a yacht scale, is to reduce some of the seemingly arbitrary rules and regulations, as well as to take advantage of certain rules and regulations.

    Registration, usage and definition of what this vessel is changes, just under operational modes. Once moored, with the outboard engines cleaned and stowed, it becomes a ship-like vessel, rather than a boat, or yacht, so even licensing and registration becomes an issue. Being intended for mooring, rather than as transport, it is not some standard category of vessel.
     
  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    What is that you are trying to patent? There doesn't seem to be anything new in the design. If you are going to anchor it semi-permanently a barge shape would be cheaper and more appropriate. That has been done for many decades with good success.
     
  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Statement Of Requirements.
    Depending on what you include in your SOR, regulations will apply to the ship. They do not depend on which are more interesting or more convenient for you, but the function of the boat, the waters in which it must float, ...
    As "it is not a standard category of vessel", the standards to be met in its design and construction can be more complicated / numerous than in a normal ship.
     
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  13. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    Not trying to patent anything related to the vessel. One of the desirable characteristics is that, in a current, it should create a broad, smooth zone aft, suitable for smaller craft, enabling easier transfer of people, supplies and so on, between this and smaller craft, in that zone.

    Another feature of the design is the expected shallow draft. Despite the overall size, the shallow draft opens up more possible locations to build and launch from, should that become a necessary development.

    I have identified several sites that have suitable buildings, ramps, etc., and waterway access to the Gulf of Mexico, opening up the potential of building and launching, then becoming supply points for the long-term process of establishing a large, man-made Kelp bed, monitoring, sampling, etc., until the initial cages can be deployed and established.

    It may seem to be a one-off, but it is intended as a prototype, as well. It may also have other applications. One thing I noticed, in the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey is the lack of redundant communications, both ashore and in the Gulf of Mexico. Shipping got backed up, waiting for instructions. I worked with M.A.R.S. to establish radio comma for supplies bound to Houston, parked as far away as Dallas and San Antonio, awaiting coordinated communications and dispatch. In under a week, we established communications, segregation of different types of supplies, even sorting Federal aid, and others to various parking lots around the Astrodome, bringing in thousands of trucks. Meanwhile, shipping to Houston, Corpus Christi and other ports came to a complete halt, rather than behind directed to serviceable docks and piers. A dedicated radio vessel, with ground coordination could have minimized that, during the power and communications outages. I chose a telescopic mast for marking purposes as well as antennae.

    For such a relatively small vessel, the potential afforded by the internal space, shallow draft and inherent stability characteristics, there are other uses that may be identified.

    I do not see this as merely some pleasure toy. It has far more potential, even at this size, than what others try to limit it to.

    Perhaps the ideas sound far-fetched, but open minds can create new possibilities.
     
  14. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    Initially, I need enough hull design, for modeling and wave-tank testing. I am not capable of drawing up that hull, regardless. I do not have access to the software, nor the training to utilize it, otherwise, I would not need help, this early in development.

    I have potential access to several wave tank facilities, here, in Texas, through several locations and Universities.

    Perhaps that is adequate, at this juncture?

    Ultimately, my goal is to have a full plan that meets the standards necessary, to see actual production. I developed my layout based on my reasoning. It may be altered, but I expect that the current design will be appropriate, based off my personal research. I have spoken with designers that worked with Ramform designs in the past. They have moved to other endeavors, even away from hull design, altogether, depending on the person. One promised loft lines, from a hard drive he no longer used. That has not happened.
     

  15. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    If it's all about drawing some plans, I can help you and I'd be happy to do it. Another very different thing is to design the boat but that, I seem to understand by what you say, that you are able to do it. So, if all you need is a draftsman, count on me.
     
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