Farrier 22 trailerable Folding Trimaran build

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by peterhull, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    I will be in Canada until the autumn, but don't let that stop you from visiting the Multihull Centre and also Darren Newton's yard next door this summer.

    I am sure someone there would be happy to take you sailing in a fast trimaran. After all, I believe 4 of the 6 multihulls in this years Round Britain race were built in Millbrook.

    My concern is that you might find a F22 too fast and energetic, especially when compared to your Barbican

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  2. peterhull
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: Taunton UK

    peterhull New user

    trailerable folding Multihulls

    Thanks Richard

    I will definitely visit Millbrook it is a must on my list!!

    Looking forward to sailing on a trailerable folding multihull at better speeds than a mono ( if poss) thanks for the offer.

    I did once sail to Portugal on a 55 foot Kelsall design called Brigand a cruising cat. we experienced high winds off the Portuguese coast that were very frightening but the Cat came thru as very stable baot, i was quite impressed.


    best wishes

    Peter
     
  3. ianfarrier
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    ianfarrier Junior Member

    Building any 20'+ trailerable multihull is a large commitment of time, and one should be wary of claims it can be done in a few hundred hours, as either the boat can be a bit inadequate, with little room or resale value, or takes hours to setup and launch.

    Building times can vary widely, with the earlier/larger (and not as easy to build) F-9A (31') having been built in as little as 1800 hours, whereas others have taken over 3000 hours, and I suspect a few could have taken as much as 5000 hours. The estimated building time for an F-22 is from 1000 to 2000 hours, and there will be some who will take over 2000 hours, and also a few who could get it done in under 1000 hours.

    It just depends on what one wants, materials or methods used, the standard of finish, how much you make yourself, your own work rate, and the standard of the plans. Use strip planked cedar or durakore, with all the multiple joins required, fair all the interior to a automotive standard finish, fit it all out with every knick knack, and you will be in the over 2000 hour group. Some also have the ability to just get on with it, while others tend to sit around and day dream, and this can add hundreds of hours.

    If plans or backup are poor, then you could also spend many hours trying to work things out, or worse, in rework to rectify plan or 'out of sequence' errors. Thus, before buying any plans, be sure to see some sample plan sheets, and the full plan list or index, so as to ascertain what you are actually getting.

    Cost can also vary widely, from the base bare boat with a main and jib, to a well fitted out boat with every option. But all equivalent 20 - 25' boats to the same structural and quality standards will basically cost the same, as they will use around the same amount of hull materials, and a similar mast and rig. There is no magic bullet here - for equivalent boats, one cannot use half the materials or half the fittings. The only additional cost for a Farrier boat is the cost of the folding system and its installation, which would be around $3000 in the case of the F-22, but this will also give a much higher resale value, even double in some cases, as it works so well, and has a well proven track record of over 30 years.

    Overall, taking on any boat building project is just not for everyone, and if you have a history of starting but not finishing projects then do not even start. But if you like the sense of achievement of building your own boat, want a something tailored exactly to your requirements, and have plenty of spare time (and a supportive spouse), then building a boat could be the right choice.

    But for others, the best option is to wait until the production F-22 is available, which will be an instant boat (just add water), and it will be reasonably priced, due to new more advanced production methods, and, more importantly, mass production. The production F-22 has taken a while (as did the F-27) but it is not far off now!

    http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22Availability.html

    Ian Farrier

    Farrier Marine (NZ) Ltd
    Farrier Marine, Inc
     
  4. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Peterhull,

    I hope you have looked at the Scarabs by Ray Kendrick, slick boats with a ply or foam option to suit your skills a good range of sizes and for economy I believe some can use a second hand beach cat rig.
    http://www.teamscarab.com.au/index.html

    Cheers
    Reuben
     
  5. peterhull
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    peterhull New user

    Small trailerable Folding Tris

    Thank-you Ian and Rueben for your replies. I am aware of the Scrab site yes thank-you Rueben. Very interesting, that may be an option for me, I don't think it it has a mechanical folding system though, i think you have to remove floats to transport don't you?

    Ian, I have had your Study books for some time and was nearly ordered plans for F22 but I need to think more carefully about this. Thanks for the advice much appreciated.

    I have been thinking hard about the options in front of me. I would not enjoy a long drawn out build. One option may be to recruit a suitable practical partner which would hopefully we could shorten the build time and we each have ready made crew after the build.

    I would get very frustrated in the summer when everyone else is sailing and I would be stuck indoors building a boat!!

    Shared ownership has worked successfully for me for 10 years with mono hulls with my cousin and he is very practical engineer and we have always sold boats in a better state than we found them.

    Ian, thanks for the link about about the new moulds and impending production of the complete F22 in 2010. This option would attract me if the delivered price was more reasonable than Malvest. I looked at the Malvest site and the prices quoted. They were in the stratosphere, way out of my budget, I am afraid.

    This thread said you had updated your site in early April but I could not find it on the blue tabs on LHS of your web site.

    I will not be in a position to start a build or change my current shared mono hull until later this year or early next year. You gave me a contact in UK who is building a F22 at the moment. I did contact him by telephone. He has finished one float to a very high standard but it has taken I think well over a year to do that.

    I will send you an email re deposits as suggested. Would be very interested in prices of the complete boat.

    best wishes
    Peter
     
  6. peterhull
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    peterhull New user

    F22

    Ian,

    I meant to ask you in the last post whether you could give me some sort of estimate for home building F22 from scratch including all materials, beams, folding mechanism, mast, rigging deck gear etc, i.e. the complete 'sail away' boat.

    I have made a start on estimates here with my own spread sheet but you must have some idea and feedback from existing builds of the total costs of build.

    I know this may vary from person to person and from country to country but if you could give me say USA prices and I can at least convert to British Pounds.

    Best wishes

    Peter
     
  7. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

  8. peterhull
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    peterhull New user

    trailerable folding Multihulls

    Thank-you Reuben for this link, I see it is a folder,I had forgotten this, all the pics I had seen were in the unfolded state.

    Very interesting, it looks like a competitor to the F22 nice sleek lines.

    I did email one of the builders, Mr Kendrick, some time ago and he gave me build costs which I have kept. I see it took about 5 years to complete, I wonder whether it could be completed in a shorter time period.

    I could be a model I would seriously consider if I can build at reasonable cost.

    I will be interesting to see the price of the new completed sail away F22's when these come on to the market later this year.

    Thanks again for the info and your time in replying

    best wishes

    Peter
     
  9. peterhull
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    peterhull New user

    Folding trimarans

    I do apolgise to Ray Kendrick, if he reads this thread.

    Ray is the designer of the Scarab 22.

    Ray sent me study plans some time ago for the S22 and it will be a seriously considered for my multi folding trailer sailer nexy year

    Regards

    Peter
     
  10. ianfarrier
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    ianfarrier Junior Member

    Peter,

    If you are the precise cabinet maker type, with a tendency for perfection, then best not to start, unless you really enjoy building. If you have a 'get it done' carpenter style work mode, then you will have it built very quickly

    The Melvest Marine F-22 is also a custom built premium all epoxy boat, not a mass production boat, so is going to be significantly more expensive. A bit like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford - they are both cars, but there is a world of difference in the price. The production F-22 will be more like the Ford, and if I can achieve what I am aiming for, more like a BMW at a Ford price.

    News Update mentioned is at: http://www.f-boat.com/recentnews.html and link is at center of my home page (Latest News)

    Not everyone takes a year to build a float, and time depends on how much spare time one has a week, and whether one is the cabinetmaker or carpenter type. One Australian F-22 was built in less than 12 months, and would have been quicker but for some paint glitches (had to be redone). From the work I have recently done with the F-22 production float plug, which was built using the same method as the normal F-22 float, but with a lot more precision, one float should take no longer than three or four weekends. Second float two weekends - but one has to work hard.

    Your deposit email received thanks, and I will keep you informed. Be aware that there will also be a lower price level where one can buy the bare unassembled hulls and beams, and assemble yourself. I'm taking particular time to ensure such a hull kit will be easy to assemble, and it will come with fully detailed and comprehensive assembly instructions. The only real problem is going to be the lead time, depending on how quickly production can be ramped up, as there's now over 50 indicating they want to put down a deposit.

    Ian Farrier

    Farrier Marine (NZ) Ltd
    Farrier Marine, Inc
     
  11. peterhull
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    peterhull New user

    F22

    Thanks Ian,

    Thanks for the advice and information.

    The more I think about this the more I am inclined to the option of buying the kit of hulls shipping to me and assembling the boat in UK .

    For me it would be a better option than buidling the boat from scratch and the other option of buying the assembled 'sail away' boat.

    We look forward to developments, thanks for taking the time to keep us all in touch via this forum - very much appreciated.
     
  12. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: Brisbane

    guzzis3 Senior Member

    Mr Woods and Mr Farrier,

    I have corresponded with both of you over the years, and posted on the yahoo groups and themultihull.com. Unfortunately my christian name was taken here so I took a more obscure username. Probably best since some people on this forum are so aggressive.

    I am aware of the strike 18. Depending on what "peterhull" is looking for he/she might also consider the jarcat j5 and j6. Once you dip below 20' the mini bridgedeck becomes an attractive option.

    Peterhull,

    Well you've recieved replies from a couple of the best designers out there. Can I just suggest you consider carefully what you want from the project before settling on a design. Some other things to consider:

    A boat of a certain weight built in a certain method will take about the same money. For example 1000 kg of foam sandwich boat hulls will cost $X. The same size boat built in a cheaper method like ply will cost less. Time will vary depending on the design, and as mentioned your own work habits and details. Mr Farrier makes the materials lists available via his study book. Mr Woods has them on his website. Don't imagine that because another designer promises a similar size boat for less materials that they are telling the truth.

    You almost certainly can't build them for less than you can buy good examples second hand. There is a wizard on trademe.co.nz right now for $11k NZ. You could probably buy that, ship it to the uk and build a trailer for about the build cost new. F-boats have about the best resale of any multihull. With a wharram your lucky to recoup your materials, with a farrier you'll recoup something for your labour.

    An F22/F82 or a wizard/sango are good all round boats. The L7 is more performance orientated. The B24 is also. The B24 is quick to build and cheap but takes a lot of work on and off the trailer.

    Finally don't take too much notice of "fast build hulls". First shaping the hulls is only a small part of the build. You can save time here and lose it tenfold in fairing time. Fitting out the boat is a tremendous time consumer. Designers tend to be evangelical about their particular design and build methods, everyone's system is the best. Truthfully provided you choose a mainstream proven method you'll do ok.

    2c.
     
  13. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: Brisbane

    guzzis3 Senior Member

    Something else I forgot. Right now there is a telstar 26 trimaran for sale in the uk for about 8k pounds. Doesn't appear to have a trailer and needs some tidying up. The telstar is an old design, heavier and slower than an F boat for example, and more trouble to get on and off the trailer, but a proven cruiser with 6' headroom and generous accomodations. Not a build as such but renovating that boat would be a good project. If undertaken carefully you'll recoup your money and you might just fall in love with the boat.

    http://www.multihulls.uk.com/gbrokerage/telstar_1183.htm

    This may be the same boat with more pics:

    http://www.multihull.nl/multihulls/used-multihulls/12102.TelstarMkI/TelstarMkI.12102.fotos.htm

    As I said I don't know what your priorities are.
     
  14. peterhull
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: Taunton UK

    peterhull New user

    Folding trimarans

    Thank you guzzis3, this is all useful information to help me make a choice.

    I am not in a big rush so this time has enabled me to research options thoroughly. Thanks for the links as well, it just goes to show that there are second hand ones out there which may suit me. Someonelse not on this thread sent me details of a s/h boat in France for sale at 10,000 euros in epoxy, fairly new, but did not recognise the design.

    I have also had a look at the Astus design which is reasonably priced. I am very concious of resale value though. I have always bought boats which I think will sell well when the time comes. It is easy to buy a boat, not so easy to sell sometimes, I think.

    I have looked at the Telstar 26 looks a roomy boat. Thank-you for your time. I really appreciate your interest in helping me make a choice and hopefully this thread will also help others with the same predicament.

    Thanks again

    Peter
     

  15. Team Scarab
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Queensland, Australia

    Team Scarab Junior Member

    Hi Peter,
    Re the Scarab 22.
    It should take about 900 hours give or take to build a S22. The Scarab 22 that I started building has been an on/off project for some time, other builders that started after myself have finished and have their boats sailing. It's not that I am slow, just that we have had many other projects completed while the Scarab 22 waits in the back of the shed (almost finished). We have built the floats and beams for an Avalon 9m for a client, 2x Scarab 18's, 3x 3 metre tris, a Scarab 350 and are presently working on the plugs and moulds for a 12 foot folding tri, plus lots of design work. The Scarab 18 can be built in about 460 hours (we have that recorded in a very detailed document) Note that painting is not included in the time recorded. Painting in our experience is where all building time estimates fall over and can take many, many hours to obtain a satisfactory result. In the past we have messed about with different paint systems sometimes painting the boat twice but now use Jotun Imperite 2 pack polyurethane with high build primer.
    I hope this info is useful.
    Regards
    Ray Kendrick
    Team Scarab
     
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