bow alteration

hello gentlemen...i have a dilemma. i purchased a set of plans from a naval architect who happens to advertise here. before i purchased them i was assured by the company that the changes to the design would be handled by the architect. with this in mind i happily laid out the money for the plans. after several emails concerning my desire for changes, (such as plumb bow, cutter rig w/bowsprit verses the existing modified clipper bow, ketch rig w/ no bowsprit), it appears that i hurt his feelings with my requests and now he refuses to help me. i have contacted two other designers concerning this but they just want to sell me their plans. i'm determined to make this new bow work! my question...is there anyone here that can guide me through the process? my plan is to take the profile of the plans as they are, overlay that with a plumb bow design, build the mold, install the battens and fair them to the new bow. i realize the importance of keeping the lines sweet and true. also, in doing the revamp i will have added approx. 2.5 to 3 feet to the waterline. is this cause for alarm? thanks in advance

 

Without seeing the original design and proposed modifications, the comments that follow are speculative at best and somewhat of a "worst case" scenario, but should be instructive as to what you may be getting into.

Changing the waterline will alter the centre of lateral resistance of the hull and centre of buoyancy, which will affect the balance of the rig and trim, respectively. The altered waterline length may also alter the angle of entry of the bow and wetted surface area which will increase hull resistance. Switching from "knockabout" sloop to spritted cutter will increase sail area (necessary to overcome additional w/s and displacement, but how much is needed?) add weight to the bow (hopefully this will balance the additional buoyancy of the extra waterline length, but it needs to be calculated to get predictable results) and shift the centre of effort of the sailplan forward. The deck structure forward may have to be beefed up to withstand the additional stresses of the bowsprit and the stem may have to be stronger to take the strain of the spritstay. The mast strength should be looked at to determine if the additional stress of the foresails can be withstood without alteration.

What you are proposing is quite acceptable and with judicious planning quite attainable, but it is not a minor design change. For a designer to make these modifications and have confidence in the performance of the resultant hull, he must change the lines, calculate the hydrostatics, do a revised weight estimate, do a scantlings check, balance the rig, and revise multiple drawings to suit the changes. In all, I would suggest that the charge-out fee for this work would be a few thousand dollars at normal naval architecture office rates. It is NOT a minor alteration!

Not to be a scold, but it is very frustrating for us designers when clients want what they think are minor changes in a design, when in actual fact the changes proposed have far reaching effects on the entire design. We try to tell the client of the impact, but they only see the obvious and become upset when we tell them the cost of the so-called little change. It is not that we (in most cases) are hurt that you don't love our designs as is, but that we are wary of the reaction of the client to the bill for additional design work, as we are not usually of the disposition to do several days or weeks of re-design work for free. And it makes us crazy when the client tells us that their design customization should be free because the resultant plans will be so popular that we will sell a truckload of the plans and more than recoup our costs once the client's boat is seen on the bay. It just ain't so. And that is why custom designs are so much more expensive than stock plans.

 

thanks for the response mmd. hopefully i can find an architect who is will to tackle this for me before next spring. to be honest, money wasn't and still isn't an issue. i was more than willing to pay his fee...i asked him on more than one occasion to just give me a fee breakdown on all worked he performed.

 

mmd, i'm assuming you are a naval architect. if so, are you up for the task or is my money better spent on a custom design that has everything i want?

 

Interested

Hello, I have read your comments, and your ideas of what you want, and if you like i'll be glad to have a more deep look into your project, i'm a freelancer Naval Architect working on the gulf of mexico and the sea of cortez.

Thanks

 

ok...how should we proceed? are you licensed? tell me more about yourself.

 

Hello, Guest No. 1. Yes, I am a naval architect of some twenty years experience. I live & work in Bridgewater, Nova Scotia and though my design work encompasses both working and pleasure craft, I more or less specialize in traditional form yachts such as schooners, cutters, and lobsteryachts. My most recent projects have been to design a modernized interior and systems for three Herreshoff ketches (two "Bounty" and one "Mobjack") while retaining the exterior form & details to exactly as L.F. Herreshoff had originally designed. All three are currently under construction. In answer to your question of whether your money is better spent on a custom design, the easy reply would be to tell you that you need a custom design because I would make more money that way, but I try to be an honest guy and keep my clients happy (what is the old saw about "make a person happy and they tell three friends, make them mad and they tell a dozen?) so I think your best plan would be to take the design that you are almost happy with and "tweak" it to get the boat that you want. I would be happy to discuss this further with you to see if there is a means to comfortably achieve what you are looking for by us working together. Please contact me at:

Michael A. Mason
Mason Marine Designs Inc.
RR 1, 362 Lower Branch Road
Bridgewater, Nova Scotia
Canada B4V 2V9

tel: (902) 543-6424
fax: (902) 543-2477
e-mail: mmason@tallships.ca

 

hello mmd...thanks for the informative response. i have to admit that the designer has finally come around, i think! i sent him an email asking if he minded if i pursued the bow alterations with another naval architect, his response was that he would rather i didn't! he has referred me to another navel architect within his organization, here in the united states. i sent this gentleman an email on the 27th of august, if i don't here from him within two weeks i would like to move forward with you. how do you propose that we do this? i'm assuming that you need a sheet from my plans that contain the line drawings, correct? i also have a sketch of the bow shape that i desire, it can be overlaid the existing plans. i'm reluctant to send the sheet for fear of incompetent mail service, is it possible to have my original copied and then send that? thanks, ken

 

Take your copy of the linesplan, construction plan & sections, and your sketch to a printer and have them copy the drawings on a Xerographic copier (any local architect or engineer's office will be able to tell you who in your area is capable of copying large format drawings, and the cost should be around $0.50 - $1.25 per sq. ft.) and send me the copies along with your name, address, etc. I will review the drawings and make reccommendations and a cost estimate before finalizing a contract and beginning the modifications. WHere in the USA are you located?

 

hi mmd...i live in port towsend, washington state. ok, i'll check into the reproduction of the mentioned sheets you require. thanks