Extreme beam Novi fishing boat design

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by comfisherman, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    comfisherman Junior Member

    The novi boats crack me up, on the west coast we have a super 58 category where the length to beam ratio is 2:1 some times a smidge over (f/v Stella and a few of the new fred wahl boats are 28). In the case of Stella, the sponson job took it to 13.5 feet deep with a big keel to help it track a bit, as well as big articulated rudder.

    Brings me to the super 40 class novi boats, they first caught my eye at 40x24, then they started doing 26s and then 28 and 29s and now a few at 30.3 on the beam. In a decade they went from fat to almost round. Aylward makes the grizzly and a few other outfits are making super "Fowtys" as well. Having spoken to a few owners they seem to not mind the ride, although most agree the 24 and 25s ride better than the 30s. It seems to me they would be about like driving a bathtub sideways, but every year they get wider and wider.

    This being an international audience there has got to be someone who is involved in building these boats or is around them enough to give some insight.

    Are there any design considerations for sea keeping? seems like they would be a bit wild in the trough.
    '
    How do they track, seems like they are rather shallow to go in a straight line?

    What are they like in a following sea, and are there any design parameters that help?

    Out of the companies making the wide bodys, who makes the best mousetrap?
     
  2. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

  3. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Canada has regulated commercial fishing by limiting the Maximum Vessel Length (MVL) associated with different classes of licenses. For example:
    Specific to the Newfoundland and Labrador Region, vessel replacement rules were modified on 12 April 2007, which divided the inshore fleet into two sub-fleets: the less than 40 feet fleet (effectively, 39 feet 11 inches) and the less than 65 feet fleet (effectively, 64 feet 11 inches). https://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/FOPO/Reports/RP9912769/foporp16/foporp16-e.pdf
    This has lead to some rather extreme designs in attempts to fit the largest boat possible within the rules.

    In Alaska purse seiners are limited to 58 feet in length, but no limit on displacement https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/...s/rc039_Ryan_Kapp_58ft_Law_Fleet_Capacity.pdf
     
  4. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Not if increasing displacement and fish hold volume within a length constraint is the goal.
     
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  5. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Why is that?

    My father was a pioneer in commercial fishing catamarans, but they seem like proof that length to beam ratios of 2:1 or lower should work fine as a monohull, as well.

    I would think they'd be about the same as a cat, in the troughs, it's the crests, where they would get a little wild. All that center flotation with little support at the beam.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  6. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    It would seem a better idea to regulate volume instead of only regulating length.
     
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  7. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Probably, but "volume" is harder to measure. US commercial fishing vessels over 5 net tons (measure of volume, not weight) need to be documented and there are various "tricks" which can be use to significantly change the measurement of net tons.
     
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  8. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    It is a sad state of affairs when you have a situation where Government introduce rules to try to protect people, yet these people then look for loopholes in the rules to try to maximise profits, possibly at the expense of sea keeping (and hence safety).
     
  9. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    ask an old fisherman about these boats and the Regulations that created them and he said, "Govt Regulations have deformed EVERYTHING to equal or greater extent, it only becomes noticeable with those boats because there are other boats to compare them to."
     
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  10. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    What's unsafe about length or length to width ratios?

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  11. comfisherman
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    comfisherman Junior Member

    Catamaran would be ill suited for the vessels like the wahl boats. I think the 26 wides can put 205k lbs below deck of whitefish and the 28s can do 235.

    The wahls are a poor design compared to the hansens, but wahl was a heck of a salesman and built 15 or so. Mostly used as pot boats in the western aleutians, and almost all replace traditional 100 footers that you think of from deadliest catch. The quota and political sway has moved to the smaller boats, so the big boat guys just adapted. Anthem can put 300 under the decks, but its probably the deepest of the lot, although others are wider.

    Hansen Boat Co - New Construction http://hansenboat.com/construction.html

    The wahls are much slower, but optimized for construction cost not design parameters. Have a few friends running wahls, and they are a big platform, but definitely not refined. The hansen will do 8 fully tanked the wahls struggle to hit 6 with identical power plants, even stella at 32 wide hits high 7s.

    The displacement is what gets me, the 65 foot rule in canada built some mostrous boxes, but the under 40 class is also limited to 15 ton. Seems like it makes for some interesting boats. Not alot of volume for the spec of some of these things.
     

  12. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    comfisherman Junior Member

    Agreed, an old friend who passed last year built many of the plugs for delta and leclerq on the west coast. Absolutely despised the modern alaska fishing vessel. Regulation although well intentioned has been mis guided and pushed us towards these kinds of things. I'd rather fish offshore on a 60x15 long liner that slipped through the water with ease. But a sub 40 footer with a 20 foot beam will make me much more money. The "best boat" is no longer the "best boat".

    The super wide 58's seine rather poorly and the ones that focus on it built 23 to 24 foot beams and are shallower in the 9 foot range. The really big and wide boats seine rather poorly. Having squid fished on larger seiners in California, they are better boats when it comes to going through the water for sure.

    The seakeeping isn't all that bad considering, and they can go through weather many cannot fathom. Id rather be on a 105 that holds 200k than a 58, but they can survive it just fine. I'll dig on an old computer, somewhere is a picture of a wahl boat leaving Dutch harbor disappearing in to waves heading back out in a storm that even the big boat were sitting out.
     
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