C&C 25 delaminated cockpit floor

I am wondering what is involved in repairing the cockpit floor of a C&C 25.
there is a obvious cracking around the drains and the floor is spongy.
i assume the core material needs replacement, how does this affect the value of the boat?
Also are the hulls of these boats prone to problems?
The boat I am considering is in the water so I cannot see the hull before purchase.
Thanks Chris

 

I believe that most C&C boats from that era have balsa core in the deck. Cockpit floor, too, apparently. This is a common repair, but can be expensive if done by a pro. The drill is to cut the glass on one side (top or bottom) around the perimeter so that the glass can be removed in one big piece. Then all the rotten material is removed, new core (foam, or balsa, whatever) is glued in. The panel that was removed is glued in and that first cut is repaired with new glass and resin. That gets cleaned up and painted. It's not conceptually hard, but I think there are many places for the process to get difficult.

Some people drill a lot of holes and blow/suction out the rot as best can, then inject resin of some kind. That might be all right for a small area, but it doesn't much appeal to me.

A C&C 25 seems pretty big to me to purchase without a look at the bottom, almost no matter how cheap. Can you dive in and take a look? Hire a pro bottom scrubber to clean the bottom and report?

 

I will wait until the boat comes out in the fall to make my decision.
Good Idea about the bototm cleaner though!
Not sure he would see much in the murky harbour water!

CJ

 

Would you buy a an older car that had a "smell" coming from the engine area, but wasn't able to look under the hood? Would you buy this same car after you got a chance to "look under the hood" in the fall when she's hauled, if you didn't bring along your motor head buddy or were experienced enough to trust yourself?

Point being, will you know what to look for when this boat comes out in the fall? Will a friend? Are you willing to take on "someone else's problem" without a good look see by someone capable of finding the issues. If we're talking a reasonable amount of money, you'd rather not get beat up for, then a survey or at least a trusted sailor friend that's been to more then a few B-B-Q's . . .

 

The cut and paste repair as described above is the way to go. To make sure you cut away all the delaminated material you should do a "tap test". Just tap with the edge of a coin on the fibreglass. In delaminated areas you should hear a dull sound.

Karsten

 

C&C 25 Cockpit Delamination

While this is an old thread I am going to pick it up.
Heck, maybe I bought the C&C 25 sailboat that was being discussed! First step in my case was to remove the tired gasoline inboard. I figure the heat and humidity from that may have contributed to the problem. Interestingly the fiberglass under the cokpit is the only fiberglass on the boat that the builder did not epoxy paint. Just for safety while working on the dozens of other boat details (and stepping through the cockpit repeatedly) I started by cutting some angle iron and bracing the cockpit from underneath on a temporary basis (front to rear). My initial look see shows that weight on the cockpit floor drops the cockpit 1/4 to 3/8ths of an inch. I'm not sure simply cutting the top of the cockpit floor out and removing the rotted wood (if there is any left to remove!) will solve the C&C 25 cockpit deflection issue. Even after the repair the cockpit may need bracing from underneath of something more seaworthy than a lenghth of angle iron!. Launched the boat just this week so that I can proceed with cockpit fiberglass job without having to climb up and down a ladder....
Things to think about... Once I open the fiberglass up from the top and scrape out the old wood it may take a few days to come up with the proper width for the replacement liner unless I want to spend for multiple widths of marine plywood or balsa to have on hand. So I guess I will use whatever I can get my hand on quickly even if its not marine plywood or balsa and soak it in resin and hope for the best. I will log on here to report what happens.... Note the yard experts swear that there is no wood laminate in the cockpit floor (they think there never was) and that the MK 1 C&C 25 just has a weak floor design that needs bracing. Well if that is the case I will report that too. Perhaps someone can learn from my experience (or is that inexperience?).

 

Well, I am the last to post on this thread and its nearly two years old. Sometimes there is a better way. I never did slice off the laminate and replace the rotted balsa. Here is what I did instead....
Reading Don Casey I noted that he believes that supporting a weak deck is just as good a solution as taking the old laminate off and replacing the rotted balsa and reaffixing the laminate. So... in my case I had removed the tired one cylinder inboard. I glassed up the bottom where the engine shaft penetrated the underbody. First I tested a lenght of angle iron that I fitted horizontally underneath the cockpit. It worked! Next decision - let's do something permanent.... So I fitted an 11 inch wide piece of marine plywood underneath the cockpit. Braced it to existing (original bracing for the rear of the cabin and rear of the cockpit. Fitted a 2 by 6 that I ripped an inch off the width and created sort of a wide "I" beam. Did a quick West Systems epoxy "glue" job to the underside of the cockpit which by the way was the only glass in the entire boat not to be painted by the manufacturer. Then I skim coated and lightly glass resined the exterior of the beam once glued to the underside of the cockpit and screwed into the existing aforementioned bracking. Two days later I spray painted it and I stayed off the cockpit floor for a week. I diid throw a couple of bags of fertilizer in the cockpit to put some weight on the cockpit floor as soon as I screwed, glued and glassed the new support beam in place. I am a novice with glass but this was much easier than when I glassed a support onto the inside of the stern for my outboard bracket. Result - $60 dollars worth of epoxy glass resin and the plywood and beam and some stainless screws. Time about three hours to cut, dry fit, glue and screw and then cover the beam with resin. Another hour to due a decent job of spray painting and miscellaneous. It looks like the manufacturer did it now. Much better job than my transom reinforcement from an eye appeal standpoint. The cockpit is strong now, has a slight flex towards the edge and I saved at least a week of detail work that might not have been as effective or strong. Added weight - about 14 pounds. I am very pleased with the result. No other delamination issues to speak of on my boat other than around the bow pulpit. This was solved with simple digging out the screw holes with a small allen wrench in my drill bit and then injecting lots and lots of epoxy and then redrilling the bow pulpit holes. I added a wood backing plate also and am now slowly adding backing platest under each stantion. I am very satisfied with the result. Maybe this will help someone. BTW... that rotten cockpit allowed me to bid down the price of my 1976 C&C 25 to under $1,000 with a trailer when I bought her. I have been told many C&C 25's suffer a similar cockpit weakness. It is probably water leakage from the screw penetrations for the manual bilge pump set in the cockpit floor and water that penetrates unprotected cuts through the cockpit floor for the cockpit drains. Next on my list is to glass up the cockpit drains and remove the through hulls for them and glass them up and then drain the cockpit rearward through the stern. Might get mildly wet in a following sea but overall a better solution and a smoother bottom.

 

I've seen too many cockpit soles with problems. Some with water ingress but most from heat, which causes delamination of the upper side from the balsa core, starting at the sides.
I would never build a boat with a balsa-cored cockpit sole. I'd build it of solid glass with glass ribbing (foam hatcase sections, etc.underneath and it would last forever (though the extra 20 lbs might slow the boat down some).

 

Cockpit floor

Alan -
I have often thought that the heat and humidity from the gasoline inboard that I removed from my C&C 25 was the culprit in the weak cockpit floor.
You sound much more experienced than I so I will decide that we are both right.

If anyone tries my fix I should have reminded them to use a box fan to circulate air when they are doing the fiberglassing at the least. I probably should have had a respirator on. Working in the cramped space on your back is enough to make you woozy without adding fumes!