Exofish!....a WIG canoe

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Saqa, May 27, 2021.

  1. Saqa
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Saqa Senior Member

    Hi all my thinking wasn't well thought out in the original thread
    Kite driven WIG.... Possible? https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/kite-driven-wig-possible.65584/

    Kite is out so I am going to focus on a powered glider electric driven. Some safety concerns was raised and also I am compiling a list of wanteds

    Concerns
    1 - Sea state interacting
    In my location there are kilometers of firm flat wide beaches and lots of protected little bays plus the inside shore of Fraser Island is usually very protected. A tricycle system with simple deployable wheels might work. I think I can fabricate a setup fairly easily and use plastic wheel chair wheels

    2 - Altitude safety
    This is important bit, the two humans most dear to me might sometimes accompany me if I decide to build something. I will have to focus on optimizing COG parachute types so that it natural orients properly and lands on a cushion of air on depowering forward thrust. Sorry I dont know a lot of the jargon. Lets raise the max desired to say about 4m in rough conditions. Not that I would head out in that but you never know localized condition changes

    Wanted
    1 - 200km range
    2 - 230kg payload including occupants
    3 - trailered with wings folded
    4 - fishing stability
    5 - Electric based with lithium batteries and onboard petrol generator custom built to provide appropriate voltage and current
    6 - Wowing aesthetics
    7 - Yes looks are more important :) , explore regen. I don't know enough about how this can work but firt impression is electric prop powered takeoff then swoop as distance with the prop now using the passing air to regen

    This is still my pondering for a cool side project so would love to hear your thoughts
     
  2. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    A glider is something different than a hang glider and it's exclusive to WIG.

    All the ultralight trike / powered hang glider I've seen on the internet have an inflatable boat presumably for weight reasons. Maybe ultralight canoe can work?
    Also not sure if they can work with electric. Regen would regenerate minimal energy.
    Generator won't make it better in that case just use a combustion engine.
    Starting and landing on water might be a bit safer than land.
    Right now you might be able to buy a used hangglider cheaper than you can build.
    You'd need to read up on those and find a forum with people that have experience.

    A WIG (wing in ground effect) / GEV (ground effect vehicle) can legally be a boat that flies very low above the surface. It's theoretically interesting but nobody has managed to do this really well yet.
     
  3. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    As much as we can marvel at the Flying Fish (some say they don't fly, I don't believe them !) it seems a tough essay to create a machine that is affordable, safe, and comfortable in all modes of operation.
     
  4. dreamingbarrierreef
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    dreamingbarrierreef dreamingbarreef

    You may want to be able to retract & stow the wing if condition goes less than ideal. Maybe folding like umbrella or bird wing? And may need to be prepared to rough it out on water at times. Wind & weather may change a few times out fishing a whole day or two, or even during en route. Maybe start out with a liferaft that's a bit more aerodynamic?
     
  5. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    certainly would be a good way to beat choppy water, but the take-off and the landing are a problem
     
  6. Saqa
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    Saqa Senior Member

    Thanks guys, good discussion. I used to have an inflatable canoe called the Colarado. I used this to fish the inshore reefs in Fiji. The pontoons from something like that with a rigid floor and a planning pad/tab together with a hang glider frame comes to mind. I'll look up hang glider accidents and get more fammilliar with the subject with time. If I build something I will be after I finish fitting out my small sport fisher and in alongside my 6m HDPE cat fitout
     
  7. Saqa
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    Saqa Senior Member

    I wonder if a prop that can adjust in the vertical plane could possibly give a lift assistance?
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    What is the 6m HDPE cat ?
     
  9. Saqa
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    Saqa Senior Member

    Hire boat that I am building. Deck boat with poly hulls, wood slat look flat deck. Small central covered area with hot plate and a shower/toilet. Opera house type pop up sleeping on roof for two
     
  10. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    I imagine for your requirements (quickly get somewhere to fish and then quickly get back) these "flying boats" / powered hang gliders are the ideal. If well maintained and inspected and with proper flight training I assume they are safe enough. But I'd always plan that you have safety devices and can be rescued with an EPIRB. In choppy water I imagine you could disassemble the hang glider wings and use them as a sea anchor. Maybe a rigid boat with lightweight foam to be unsinkable would be safer too.

    For the weekly flight these powered hang gliders probably use so little fuel that it makes no sense sustainability wise to go electric. Especially if you can use a used motor the carbon balance would be better.

    But you'd really need to research things like legal requirements for pilot license, weight classes for aircraft, regulations of where you can take off and land, and make or find lists of suitable aircraft to build or buy.

    Other search terms would be "Ultralight Amphibian Seaplane". There are options there too. The more modern ones look awesome but I figure much more expensive. If you find a sleek ultralight kit seaplane let me know :)
     
  11. Saqa
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    Saqa Senior Member


    Hey man, have you seen this vid? The conditions on this day are like the worst I can expect on the worst day I would dare to go out. Actually we only see this in the worst of northerlies here. To me the wing seems quite stable and controlled in what to me appears to be gusty conditions. I need to find some gliders to watch
     
  12. Saqa
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    Saqa Senior Member

    Deejay, thank you for the thoughts. I am currently working towards a coxswains ticket and setting up two commercial rental boats through the regulatory bodies. Aviation ticket would be cool as I have in interest in flying

    Regarding the powerplant. Quiet operation is a major attraction to me these days. Are you aware of any 4 stroke small engine setups that can be very quiet? Would be good to find some options
     
  13. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I am still getting flashbacks of the Solo Man, these things are for the brave and bold, and I am also doubtful just how the little underslung boat would go as a platform with wind and waves.
     
  14. Dejay
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Sorry no clue.
    I only recently researched aircraft for fun, but too high investment for me. You'd have to find out how much HP you need to stay airborne to figure out how much batteries and weight you need. Maybe it can work? But good ear protection would be cheaper ;)

    Those sleek ultralight motor gliders are very efficient but expensive to build this light. I think the e-birdy has only 0.057 kWh/mile so for 200 miles that would be 11.4 kWh. With a cheap lithium pack that would be about 3500€. Probably more for take off and landing and safety margin. I doubt a hang glider can compete with that glide efficiency but I'm not sure.

    Maybe you could also build a cowling for the engine to dampen the sound a bit? And it being behind you could help a bit too.

    PS: And yeah stability on the water if the wind picks up could be a major problem. I believe some ultralight seaplane design have sponsons fixed to the fuselage or pontoons fixed to the wings. Or wider pontoons like a catamaran.

    PPS: Looking for a local flying club close to the water is probably the best way to find answers.
     

  15. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    dejay gives some good advice, I can see the attraction of the idea, but the potential problems are plentiful
     
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