Existing sailing catamaran to commercial survey standard?

Discussion in 'Class Societies' started by DennisRB, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    I keep getting people to ask me to take them on my 43 foot sailing cat for money. This got me thinking. I would love to go sailing as a job to take kiteboarders around etc.

    The issue is I always thought the cost was prohibitive to get an existing custom boat to survey standard. My boat was apparently designed to exceed the current survey standards at the time (Crowther 226A). But there is no evidence to show how it was built.

    Is it just going to be easier and cheaper to sell the boat and start again?
     
  2. NavalSArtichoke
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    NavalSArtichoke Senior Member

    It depends on what regulations the laws in Australia specify that a commercial passenger-carrying craft must meet. Only someone familiar with those laws and regulations who could inspect your vessel and evaluate it can say for sure.

    It's not clear what you mean by "survey standard".
     
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  3. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Dennis,

    Bear in mind this process has undergone some change over the last few years & QLD has been different from NSW & other states, but now should be similar.
    You really need to talk to the commercial vessel branch of maritime authority, in NSW they're now "Roads and Maritime" maybe qld is harbours & rivers?
    In past time post survey of fiberglass vessels was possible but required that reasonably substanecial samples were taken for inspection and testing then these areas of vessel replaced, this is at risk of not passing. Not sure on the age of your design but at times submissions from naval architect could streamline, a submission is required for stability etc. There used to be a simplified process for daycharter only.
    The advice I was given by NSW maritime(some time back) over my beach marine cat(there was even a sistership already in survey), was to find a vessel in survey or build)
    Without destructive testing or a documented build process with samples created for inspection and testing it could well be the same now. A lamination log showing temp, humidity, resin batches and plys of reinforcement, core materials, quantities etc are usually required, the build premises need to meet a minimum standard, not hard but another hoop.
    This may be out of date but the case up till a couple of years back at least, there may be a category that applies, sometimes acceptance of addition of large quantities of buoyancy foam could achieve a daycharter/status.... regardless you will need an NA familiar in the commercial landscape to do the submissions, sometime the sail area is derated also. The resin choice also effects the status, there's plenty Crowther vessels built without csm but utilising other fabrics perfectly strong and servicable but non compliant to Aus standard unless in epoxy.

    Most importantly you need to decide whether to compromise your enjoyment of your vessel and sailing to the whims of your paying guests, they soon "suck the life" from a great lifestyle.... Day use is good, 6 hours of exposure & hose the boat down for the next day..

    The road to building one will be exxy, you could buy a seawind or another already in survey & keep the crowther for yourself :)

    Jeff
     
  4. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    Thanks guys. The regulator is https://www.amsa.gov.au/domestic/vessels-operations-surveys/certificates-of-survey/ AFAICT, but Jeff, are you saying there will be additional QLD regulations too?

    In AU we have commercial survey standards, we just say the boat is in "survey" which means its legally allowed to be operated at a commercial level. There are various levels depending where the boat is used etc. If I build or buy a boat it will be for the highest standard, so I can do longer trips and go on kite-boarding adventures etc with paying guests.

    But if its possible to do with my current boat I would be happy with a day charter permit if it means it will be much easier to get. I sail in areas where day charters would work out OK. I would not let guests suck the fun out of cruising. They will stop me going broke so I can buy better toys for the boat and when I get sick of it I will just sail on and look for new guests when funds run low.

    I really do not want to own 2 boats. I also plan to stay living on any boat I plan to use commercially. I need to do a fairly major refit on this boat anyway including fairing and paint, so destructive testing will not be as bad as if the boat was nice and shiny already.

    Obviously I know I can get every answer right here, but I was looking for some general idea so I could at least ponder the possibility. I believe http://www.bloomfieldinnovation.com/ was Crowthers old partner and when I got the boat I asked him a few things. Digging up his old response seems promising.

    I fired him an email asking if he could help.
     
  5. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Yes, AMSA is the national authority, so now we nearly have a cross state unification of rule, the state authorities usually administer within thier area, qld apparently has used a different aproach to inspection using private but pre qualified surveyors, i think the rest are catching up to this approach.
    From memory the easy exemptions were mostly for smooth water opperation, kinda cuts out good spots. The last couple of years has seen quite some change in these areas particularily for small boats Sub 7.2meter, I'm just working through some certificate of operation for a few small work boats we use, seems that what was applicable years back has changed & I'm learning the new as I go having been out of it for a while. Bigger stuff is much the same. There is some greater trouble granfathering of vessels that have lapsed surveys at some expence if no longer compliant.
    Theres's always the grey areas of share expences or you could get a cert of op for your dingy as a hire n drive.......... But again usually for smoothwater operation.

    Jeff
     
  6. OzFred
    Joined: Nov 2015
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    OzFred Senior Member

    If you want to know specifically about registering a commercial vessel in Queensland, a good place to start is the Commercial and fishing ship registration page on the Maritime Safety Queensland (MSQ) web site. MSQ is a branch of the Department of Transport and Main Roads.

    MSQ has regional offices, depending on where you are it might be simpler to visit an office. It might help to become personally familiar with the staff, though some of the DTMR staff I've encountered require some advanced negotiating skills (that I have left to others more capable at such things). :)
     
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  7. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    Thanks, I am still waiting for Stuart Bloomfield to get back to me.
     
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