Everything Old is new again - Flettner Rotor Ship is launched

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by rwatson, Sep 1, 2008.

  1. CT249
    Joined: May 2003
    Posts: 1,637
    Likes: 264, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 215
    Location: Sydney Australia

    CT249 Senior Member

    The paper also projected a payback period of 8.8-14 years - but the lower end only comes into play if the ship does fewer voyages and therefore earns less money. The compelling case only applies to owner-operators, not to time or voyage charterers. I'd love to see Co2 emissions drop but the compelling case didn't apply to many operators.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2024
  2. Herreshock

    Herreshock Previous Member

    This is

    This is ac72 with multi element rigid wingsails
    [​IMG]

    Look at that, flexible windgsails have better upwind traits than rigid wingsails and any current "performance boat" using common fabric sails look pretty lame compared, and still the myth of keeled sloop upwind fallacy is still there
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2024
  3. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 6,240
    Likes: 523, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Of course. Performance isn't the major benefit.
    I started a thread on the topic The case for fully automated sailing rigs https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/the-case-for-fully-automated-sailing-rigs.69564/

    The need for managing the equivalent of huge sail rigs using automated systems in complete safety is a big benefit.
    Can you imagine having the three crew members of a 100,000 racing around the decks adjusting, trimming, optimising sails like the poor sods in "The Ocean Race" currently pounding their way across the Southern Ocean.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But, as far as tested, documented performance, lets look at an actual comparison study .
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17445302.2019.1612544#d1e628


    WingsailVFlettnerPolars.png


    Not so very different performance Polars comparing sophisticated sail systems with Rotors, and as noted in the Rotor description, the power required to turn the Rotors was included in the calculations.
    PLUS
    Vastly reduced Heel performance
    The small space this technology requires on deck in comparison with the other two sail technologies
    The ability to move the Rotors to help with Cargo operations

    Between Safety, Ease of Handling, Comparative Performance the benefits of the Rotors stack up.
     
  4. Herreshock

    Herreshock Previous Member

    Already there are free-standing masts ignored by current sailboat designers and also lower and high aspect ratio sails also reduce heel

    And small sailboats can transport cargo for free so no need for these behemoths that fuel consumerism

    Today Im focusing in low height multi mast thin flexible wingsails acting as multi element wing and these are the present of safe engineless sailboats
     
  5. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 6,240
    Likes: 523, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    No, not ignored. Uninsurable
    Just been reading some posts on the Proa Forums, where they cannot get Insurance for unstayed masts.

    Nice dream, but totally unrealistic. Until you can reduce civilisation to the stone age, you are looking at " 30 million twenty-foot equivalent units (TEU) of cargo are expected to be transported across the Pacific Ocean in 2024"

    They must be magic masts, able to conjure up their own optimum winds. There is no such thing as a "safe engineless" yacht, especially one engaged in commercial operations.
     
  6. Herreshock

    Herreshock Previous Member


    Who cares about insurers? Already freestanding masts are safer, they bend and if they break is at the base just like laser masts and can be reinserted with few tools cutting the base from the rupture point


    Rather 1950s-80s Consumerism is a nightmare and humanity has lasted millenniums without it, check your bias we can cut transportation by almost 99% just by growing local food, wood and textiles and closing landfills reusing everything

    If you see ac72 catamaran wind polar diagram thats a safe engineless boat, besides a sail is a sort of wind engine blade


    Check your bias
     

  7. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 6,240
    Likes: 523, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Historic details of the original Flettner Ships.

    The first illustration is the before and After pictures of the first Rotor Ship, the Baden Baden

    BuckauBeforeAfterRotors.png


    And her sister ship, who worked the Mediterranean for 6 years.

    BarabaraHistory.png

    Courtesy of Professor Hubert Chanson
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.