Europe more dangerouse than USA? (gunshots vs terror threat)

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Raggi_Thor, Oct 6, 2010.

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  1. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    How about we both use the meanings that would be considered normal ones in the context of this discussion, instead?

    If instead you're using your meaning, I'm using my meaning, and we're each ignoring the other's meaning, what we have here is a failure to communicate instead of a discussion.
     
  2. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    We are trying to see it is interpreted according to the original meaning by the authors of it.

    Yes.

    Huh?
     
  3. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    is = I

    hell, the original authors didn't live according to the constitution they wrote

    within a few years the courts were handing down decisions on its meaning
     
  4. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Then perhaps you can explain why people who supposedly want to preserve the intentions of the original authors are so determined to change or add to the Constitution.

    In the current Congress, conservatives like Michele Bachmann have suggested more than 40 amendments to the Constitution: an anti-flag burning amendment; a balanced-budget amendment; a “parental rights” amendment; a supermajority-to-raise-taxes amendment; anti-abortion amendment; an anti-gay-marriage amendment; and so on. None of those revisions have anything to do with the document’s original meaning or purpose.

    Not that the other side has any more sense; Jesse Jackson Jr. alone has proposed nine amendments that I know of.:)

    I don't think we should be changing or adding to the Constitution for petty reasons, and I think we need to be cautious about flippantly reinterpreting it to suit ourselves when it becomes inconvenient. But on the other hand, you might also want to read up on Thomas Jefferson's opinion of people who insist on blindly adhering to the laws and ways laid down by our forefathers:

    "Though we may say with confidence, that the worst of the American constitutions is better than the best which ever existed before in any other country, and that they are wonderfully perfect for a first essay, yet every human essay must have defects. It will remain, therefore, to those now coming on the stage of public affairs, to perfect what has been so well begun by those going off it."
    --Thomas Jefferson to T. M. Randolph, Jr., 1787.

    "Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I knew that age well; I belonged to it and labored with it. It deserved well of its country. It was very like the present but without the experience of the present; and forty years of experience in government is worth a century of book-reading; and this they would say themselves were they to rise from the dead."
    --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816.

    "Those who [advocate] reformation of institutions pari passu with the progress of science [maintain] that no definite limits [can] be assigned to that progress. The enemies of reform, on the other hand, [deny] improvement and [advocate] steady adherence to the principles, practices and institutions of our fathers, which they [represent] as the consummation of wisdom and acme of excellence, beyond which the human mind could never advance."
    --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813

    "The real friends of the Constitution in its federal form, if they wish it to be immortal, should be attentive, by amendments, to make it keep pace with the advance of the age in science and experience."
    --Thomas Jefferson to Robert J. Garnett, 1824

    "I am certainly not an advocate for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions. I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because, when once known, we accomodate ourselves to them and find practical means of correcting their ill effects. But I know also that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also and keep pace with the times."
    --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816

    "The idea that institutions established for the use of the nation cannot be touched nor modified even to make them answer their end because of rights gratuitously supposed in those employed to manage them in trust for the public, may perhaps be a salutary provision against the abuses of a monarch but is most absurd against the nation itself. Yet our lawyers and priests generally inculcate this doctrine and suppose that preceding generations held the earth more freely than we do, had a right to impose laws on us unalterable by ourselves, and that we in like manner can make laws and impose burdens on future generations which they will have no right to alter; in fine, that the earth belongs to the dead and not the living."
    --Thomas Jefferson to William Plumer, 1816

    "Can one generation bind another and all others in succession forever? I think not. The Creator has made the earth for the living, not the dead. Rights and powers can only belong to persons, not to things, not to mere matter unendowed with will."
    --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824

    http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1000.htm
     
  5. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Wow, it's just like being on the Climate Thread!
     
  6. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    If Guillermo shows up and starts cutting and pasting to prove Thomas Jefferson never existed, I'm leaving.:D:D
     
  7. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    i thought that was bono
     
  8. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    Raggi_Thor, you are falling into the same trap that flags Colombia as the "most dangerous" place on earth. I am often there, as my wife is Colombian, so let me open your and other mislead and misinformed people's eyes. Colombia is one fo the safest countries in the world. Your gun chart is complete brainwash and propaganda and I suggest that you pay absolutely NO attention to it. Contrary to the usnian propaganda, Colombians are safer than usanians, despite the ongoing armed conflict.

    Now, I know that sounds like a contradiction, but I have years of experience living there, unlike the rest of the people here, so my statements are from the ground.

    There is a reason why Colombians are among the first three nations in the world, rated by the OUN, as the happiest people. It is the fact that the real situation is actually completely oposite of what the "democratic" media is brainwashing you with. I spent there two months just recently and travelled up and down the country without a hitch. And what little of violence (yes, LITTLE) does exist, is basically criminals killing each other.

    And that too, against the "democratic" propaganda, is mainly the ultra-right paramilitaries killing each other for a slice of the business with CIA - drug trade.

    Digressing a bit here: the marxist guerilla sells less than 3% of the total cocaine produced in the country. The paramilitaries, armed and supported by the usa and cia, and the government, are the ones who are the real druglords and responsible for the rest , 97% of the total drug production.

    In fact, the country is so safe and vibrant, it attracts a lot of Europeans and even some wankies, sorry yankies..., as it offers very attractive conditions for foreign investment. The capital Bogota' is littered with foreigners, and there are many in Cartagena (which is the reason why the real estate there is as expensive as in France or England), Medellin and lately Pereira.

    One simple indicator, the currency (pesos) has been stable and unaffected by the "global" financial crisis, which affected only usa and their arse-licking allies. Colombia, in fact, with the previous president was one of such arse-licking allies, but the economy is not attached to the usanian economy so Colombia sailed through with no issues.

    It's just that the panic-creating shitheads in the usa are now spreading that panic against their european allies to divert the attention from the fact that that punk bernanke is going to print yet more money to pretend that the economy is "recovering".

    In the meantime the debt is reaching new records by the second:

    http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

    usa, everyone knows that, is one of the unsafest place on earth. A country riddled with bullets every day. Population that lives in fear and constant state of panic provoked by the reality of the "paradise" being controlled by mafias in the government and outside.

    Statistics is just a crap criminals in power use to spread panic and force people to accept their plans.

    People in fear are easily manipulated.

    "Europe is dangerous! Don't go there!"

    Who says?

    usanians.

    Isn't that enough to make you laugh and tell them to go screw themselves? Europe is one of the safest places on earth. That they have imported large number of muslims bent on revenge for hundreds of years of colonisation and exploitation, is another thing. Still, no one can beat usa. Over three million prisoners doing the time right now.

    No other country in the world has that many prisoners.

    The whole country is a prison. It is just promoted as a paradise.

    And for criminals it is.
     
  9. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    One man's "Hell" is another man's "Heaven".
     
  10. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    (response to Milan's post61)

    Hoyt, you should have realised long time ago that you right-wing people are too patronising bunch. You pretend to have all the answers, yet the world is a hell made by you guys.

    In a typical fashion, right wing screws everything, gets voted out and then takes the high moral grounds and spits the venom on the newly-elected left accusing THEM of all the evil in the country and the world.

    Your own country is perfect example for that.

    If we were to believe what people from the right ******** about, we would have to believe that obama bin something is the main architect of the "global" financial crisis (which only ****** up usa and a couple of their arse-lickers in reality. It was anything but "global". It was strictly regional. usa-regional.)

    Yet, we all know that, osama something, could not have done crap to put the utopian creation called usa in this position.

    Whodunnit?

    You right wing capitalists with your utopia about the "democracy" and "freedom".

    With more prisoners than any other country in the world, you people need to look at yourselves and start accepting the responsibility for all the **** that you produce and then throw onto the rest of the world.

    Let me help you here. Who is guilty of nuclear bombing from Japan to Iraq and Yugoslavia?

    usa.

    Who is guilty for the "global" financial crisis?

    usa.

    Who is guilty for all the military juntas plaguing and destroying prosperous South American countries?

    usa.

    See the pattern?

    Who bancrupted Island?

    usa.

    Who all but bancrupted England, Portugal. Greece, Spain, Hungary, Italy, and now even France is shaking?

    usa.

    We ALL know that.

    So do you.

    Maybe it is time to get off that high moral ground because it makes conservative, right-wingers look like a bunch of criminals ready for a bitumen and feather treatment before the electric chair.

    Which is looooong overdue, by the way.
     
  11. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Bring it.
     
  12. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    MasDildito, I am not even going to read your second post - I saw enuf. You think you are the only one with people in Columbia? You are a damned fool and a liar. I have no idea to what purpose you lie like this nor why everything you demonstrate is incorrect and stirring ****. I have many personal friends who are Columbian and they left because it was too dangerous. Mexico City is full of them. I know many in Anchorage, Alaska, as we have a large vibrant community of Columbians. I have close personal friends in Seattle tambien who had to leave when the F'ing scum like you went into the malls and trashed their chain of computer stores. Damn you and your lies.
     
  13. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    People who blame the USA for the world's shortcomings and troubles are like small children blaming everyone else because they've peed their pants. And the one thing more ridiculous than someone claiming Americans are angels out to save the world, is someone like you pretending we're demons out to destroy it.

    If you took a fraction of the time and energy you use up spitting on America, and spent it trying to improve your own country instead, the world would be a better place. Frankly, I prefer my country's most rabid right-wingers over you -- because at least they believe their own actions can make a difference. Apparently, all you believe is that everything is someone else's fault -- and that your responsibility begins and ends with whining about it.

    Physician, heal thyself.
     
  14. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    Troy, your argument is that of an old impotent man who cannot do no more but to talk endlessly about it.

    (the time you spend arguing with the likes of markthewanker and similar tells it all...)

    See, just like the abovementioned ****** mark, you are too quick to read things no one said, or wrote. I did not blame your country I merely stated the facts.

    Now, for mark the ****** such a reaction is normal. He has proven abundantly that he is a being deprived of any brains whatsoever. His only contribution to anything is to first say that he is never going to read nor respond to someone's posts, then to drop a shitload of insults.

    Tha is what retards do. They do not think. They are unable to do that. Being retards they have no capacity beyond that of reflex behaviour. And their reflex behaviour is only able to stimulate adrenalin excretion.

    Of you I had abetter opinion. You have now proven me wrong.

    I never blame Americans. I am one myself. usanians, who live on the same continent, now that is entirely different story.

    But feel free to close your eyes and stick your head into the sand. That will not change the facts.

    And it is the whole world that is saying to you (usanians colectively) now. Watch the BBC story about Iraq, if you can. See what YOUR usanian and english politicians, generals and journalsit all are saying about the usa, Irak etc.

    It is easy for you to call one man, or two, here names and write superficial comments of no value. But when certain general Jack Keane says that what he and his cronnies did in Iraq, on direct orders from forrest gump, frankly your opinion, that of a peon in the imperialist machine of the usa, cannon fodder really, means nothing and to talk nonsense, which is contrary to the facts top generals say now, is just a display of their success in brainwash they have achieved with you.

    If you understand nothing of what I just wrote, then think this way: it is worrying that the facts, when I write them, bring ****** and you closer together.

    Now, THAT is really a worrying thing.

    Much more than your itellectual inability to think with your own head and see the facts as they are. Not to see the propaganda served to you as if it were the truth.

    Just like the one Raggi_thor is complaining about here.

    "Europe is dangerous."

    You have to be mentally deranged to believe such ****.

    Completely mentally deranged.
     

  15. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    By the way, you need to start reading stuff other than your daily nazist propaganda. Chile is the best economy in the Americas. We have beaten your country long time ago. We grow faster, we have no corruption to speak of, we have health and social services you can only dream of, and we have a stable and peaceful country.

    Go say that for your own, somewhere in the middle of Atlanta, New Orleans or Boston. Where the rate of homicide is two to three times that of Brazil or
    Guatemala. Or even Colombia, as the OUN report would have you believe it.

    We are not a rich country because we do not have the army to feed, army to send out and kill people in the name of the big capitalist oligarchy that maintains your fallen country still in one piece. We do not have the resources and the internal market to create as much money as your war machine. We do not sell **** in a nice wrapping to the world, like you poor people do.

    And there are only 16 millions of us. Still, in the few years after we got rid of the dictator installed by YOUR cia and Kissinger, we are powering forward within the limitations of our natural and human resources.

    Something usa, despite all the wealth stolen from the rest of the world, is unable to do.

    Our budget is 20 billion in plus, your is in minus for $13 673 088 153 900 falling dollars, and growing by the second.

    It is not Chilean government tha is apologising for inhumane experiments on Guatemalan people. It is usanian government

    http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...0s-std-experiment-in-guatemala_100437894.html

    It is not Chile the country with 5 top evil experiments ever conducted on humans. It is usa:

    http://listverse.com/2008/03/14/top-10-evil-human-experiments/

    It was not Chile that had caused over hundred international armed conflicts and participated directly in at least 20 (officially). It was usa:

    http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/uni/usa/index.htm

    It was not a chilean politician that confessed that he and his government and consequent governments are all war criminals. It was usanian mcNamara.

    And you will still have audacity to take that high moral ground and claim that crap you just posted...

    Let me paraphrase you:

    Patient, seek treatment for thyself.
     
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