Ethanol avoidance

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by tom28571, Sep 27, 2009.

  1. TollyWally
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Fox Island

    TollyWally Senior Member

    Sorry to hear you have poisoned your gas. What were the differences in the composition of gasoline in the States and down under? Or anywhere else for that matter.
     
  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    just having a good time with it Tolly
    no worries
    but I do think that the leaning problem mentioned by several folks is the bigger issue rather than the solvent issue
    rubber components may need to be changed
    but re-jetting is more of a guess and your likely to not get it quite right
    better be running rich than lean but all in all
    there is just no excuse for putting the **** in the fuel in the first place
    it was a dumb idea and still is

    whats really funny is that gas seldom has the octane rating its specified to have
    so your already got one variable
    now throw in alcohol and try and re-jet
    you end up guessing

    and if your car is computer controlled and fuel injected
    your stuck with whatever it gives you eat the engine or not

    cheers
    B

    dont eat chips frosty
    nothing but grease my friend
    remember
    buffalo and duck, venison, elk and raw vegetables, lots of raw fish
    and lots and lots of beer
    as my Lokota friends would say Hoka hey
     
  3. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Cripes Buffalo , duck elk and venison ---never ever have I eaten them maybe a bit of duck ,--far too rich for me ,--do you have gout.

    Raw vetetables sometimes but thats a good way to get worms.

    Fish of course,--beer?-- whats that?
     
  4. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: Melbourne/Singapore/Italy

    powerabout Senior Member

    No idea whats different but up till late 70's our gas was from our own oil, then consumption out stripped supply so we swap LPG for oil now.
    E10 is still rare and each state has a diffent rule, most not yet approving it.

    IF, IF, IF it was viable to produce I think it should only be 100% and cars should have a button to select 100% ethanol or make a model ethanol only along with the very high compression ratio that they could run would produce less emissions and possibly same or more power( but the carbon produced during the production of ethanol would probably wipe that out)
     
  5. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    the next craze is celulitic ethanol as they have some pretty incredible digestive enzymes worked out and also way higher tolerance yeast on the way very soon

    Frosty
    Gout is caused by to much beef and that because beef is so contaminated with hormones and excess and unnatural fats. If you ate game animal it would not likely effect your condition
    consult your doctor of course but circulation issues I deal with by taking herbs and eating lots of fish. Game animal should not adversely effect gout.
    try a little and see my bet is your doctor will be ok with it but check first to make sure. Its not that meet is bad its just what we have done to meet that is bad. Game animal is as of yet unmodified or adulterated with antibiotics and hormones or genetic engineered fats

    best of luck
    and whats this tripe about no beer
    rumor is you could put the pope under the table mate
    cheers

    B
     
  6. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: Melbourne/Singapore/Italy

    powerabout Senior Member

    Boston

    Americans cant talk about food to foreigners...
    After all you put Soya products in everything and thats poison!
    The Global Soya lobby is run by 2 companies that spend more on brain washing than all the cigarette companies combined.

    Google soya is poison
     
  7. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    watch me ( I got talking, cooking and eating down to an art mate )
    I dont touch soy
    its
    um
    poison :D :p :D

    being half Iroquois I got kinda the best of both worlds
    a bad ticker from my father
    and some dam good looks from my dear old mum
    means Ill probably glitch mid thrust on some seriously beautiful young babe you couldn't have landed when you were in your twenties let alone sporting a high forty

    its the only decent way to go if you ask me

    oops
    need another beer
    B
     
  8. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: Melbourne/Singapore/Italy

    powerabout Senior Member

    ha haa

    last time I checked they are still making 'seriously beautiful young babes'
    so I even if i'm left with the ones you reject, there will be plenty...
    and...being still in my 40's with all grandparents living to late 90's, no smoking, healthy ozzie life style, I'll be moving into first place eventually...
    if only to remember being 20!

    ( just dreaming, I am married)
     
  9. pamarine
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: Norfolk, VA

    pamarine Marine Electrician

    They had talked about adding ethanol to diesel fuels, but then quickly realised that the infrastructure upgrades required were cost prohibitive, and the idea has since been scrapped by the EPA. Ironically, at the federal level, so has Ethanol in Gasoline. But most states are still requiring it's use.
     
  10. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Gout,--I don't have it ,--all my mates do that eat Turkey, ham bacon cheese etc etc. I don't eat rich food.

    favourite meal--tuna salad.
     
  11. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    ya those are all the classic; hormone drenched antibiotic injected genetically engineered extra fatty and live in there own wall to wall crap. will kill you meats

    Montfort foods is huge in this country and raise most of the pigs around here. Wonderfully caring folks that they are they dreamed up a system of farming that must have come straight from hell itself. They call it the three tier method of pig farming. Goes something like this.

    you take a pig and place it in a cage just about large enough to fit its *** in. then you stack three cages on top of one another. One half of the bottom is a metal plate the other half is a wire mesh. Rig water to all three cages but, and here is my favorite part, you only feed the pig on top. the next pig down eats some spillage and gets pissed on from time to time Since he's still hungry eats the other pigs ****. the pig on bottom, he pretty much eats **** in a cage he can barely turn around in, wondering why its raining piss while staring at a bunch of other pigs pretty much doing the same, as far as the eye can see. The system is basically automated so the pig might actually only see a human once or twice up to the point of slaughter. One the guy that stuffed him in the cage and two the guy who comes along with a electric prod and throws his squealing but on out of it. Kinda makes you proud to be a human doesn't it. Then comes the trauma of getting your brains scrambled by by the third human your likely to ever see this one with a bolt gun

    Thats a whole other nightmare

    enjoy that bacon kids
    now you know what fed that pig eh
    yummmm
    bacon

    its mostly pig ****
    so go ahead
    have some more
    package says its good for you and is chock full of vitamins and minerals
     
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  12. Jimbo1490
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Location: Orlando, FL

    Jimbo1490 Senior Member


    This isn't why they run alcohol in race engines. They run it because it make more power, FAR more in fact. It makes more power because it burns at a much richer air/fuel ratio than typical gasoline (9.5:1 vs 14.7:1). This allows you to burn substantially more fuel, releasing more heat per unit of time, thus more power. The lower energy density of ethanol is easily offset by the richer stoichiometry, thus power increases. The fuel economy is appallingly bad, but you do make more power.

    Jimbo
     
  13. TollyWally
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Fox Island

    TollyWally Senior Member

    Jimbo,
    I've read enough of your posts not to argue with you on this subject. I thought the "extra" power came from the higher compression and lower tendencies for detonation. I knew they ran greater amounts of fuel through the motors.

    It was my understanding that they ran a lot more lower caloric fuel at greater compression to extract more horsepower. The key being the higher compression ratios available and lower detonatation tendencies running the cooler burning alky.

    We may be talking about the same thing but you obviously understand it at a deeper level. I look forward to you setting me straight, I'm basically here to learn.
     
  14. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    In Uk --cows --bolt gun, sheep is slit throat, pig is electrical through ear to ear.

    I have no idea why different methods.
     

  15. Jimbo1490
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Location: Orlando, FL

    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    Pure ethanol has an octane rating of 113. Compare to pure toluene at 114 and methanol at 107. Many racing gasoline formulations have octane ratings in this range and higher, so the octane rating is not the key to the power gains, it's the fuel/air ratio.

    Additionally, the alcohols all have a problem with 'octane sensitivity' which is indicated by a big spread between the research (R) and motor (M) octane numbers. Their 'R' number is very high, the 'M' number not so good, and the average is what is quoted as the specification. To make a long story short, a racing gasoline formulation with an octane rating of 113 will typically have more resistance to detonation than ethanol, because of the smaller spread between R and M octane ratings.

    The combustion (chamber) temperature is another issue altogether. Though excessive chamber temperature can create a condition which leads to pre-ignition (dieseling), this is *not* *quite* *exactly* the same problem as detonation (very long explanation about 'abnormal combustion' avoided :D), for which alcohol, as pointed out, is only an average performer. Alcohol burns cooler in an engine because of its specific heat properties and it's transitional heat properties (the heat change resulting from evaporation) coupled with it's richer stoichiometry, meaning there's a lot more of it going through the engine, end evaporating (absorbing heat),thus lowering combustion chamber temperatures and providing a barrier against dieseling due to excessive combustion chamber temperature.

    Jimbo
     
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