Epoxy Problems???

Besides cost what are the problems in dealing with epoxy?

 

Tends to get on my clothes and doesn't wash out. smile

Must wear gloves to avoid as much skin contact as possible. I have never had a rash. Generally end up getting some on me somewhere when working with it. It peels off the next day when I start to sweat.

Cost can be much less than the marketed resins.

Some epoxies have offensive odors. Some don't smell so much. Still it is best to get out of the shop after using a bunch of it.

 

The biggest problem I see with epoxy is that it is not UV stable. You have to paint it or otherwise cover it. And they don't give it away.

Otherwise, it's great stuff.

 

Have a look at this website for pro's and more info

http://www.westsystem.com

 

It all depends on what you want to do. It is much better than polyester resin in many ways, but for most applications it's over kill. If you are making a well engineered, high stress part and using other types of fibers in combination with glass, then it can be great. For normal back yard boat repair, when you are replacing something originally made with polyester, just stick with polyester or VE. Save your money for gas and beer.

 

What I most dislike about epoxy is how dangerous it is. How people turn utter allergical to the stuff. That scares the hell out of me.

In the fifth edition, the Gougeon Brothers write several pages on how to prevent overexposure.

They "reassuringly" write "Fewer than 10% of epoxy users react when overexposed to epoxy" Hmm, that's one out of ten!

"Allergic dermatitis is a more serious problem, but less than 2% of epoxy users are likely to get it". Yikes, that's still an awesome lot. Notice that here it doesn't say "less than 2% of OVEREXPOSED users", but apparently it is 2% of all users.

Then there's "Severe irritation and Chemical burns", "respitory irritation".

So, I may be overly paranoid, but that stuff is something one should consider the necessity of using to get a job done properly.

 

In my early 20's when I first started using epoxy (West), I did a hand rubbed finish on a couple of pieces of turned wood. No gloves just resin and rubbing. (Would not even consider doing this today.) After a day or so when all the epoxy peeled off my hands, there was no rash.

I have never had a reaction to epoxy. Some epoxies are offensive to my nose. Even they do not cause me a respiratory problem. However, I am sensitized to miniral spirits, turpentine, and latex paints. These cause a burning sensation and and later on in the evening a shallow breathing pattern. Welding fumes and cut/burned steel set my lungs off also.

I still use all of the above. Most with a carbon filter mask. Make of this what you will.

 

All these resin chemicals are nasty. Just because something isn't outlawed or surrounded by warnings doesn't mean squat. Pt wood was no big deal until all of a sudden it is. The government, chemical companies and manufacturers will wait until the last possible moment, until the evidence is overwhelming and it is ludicrous to deny problems before doing much besides supplying a page of small print absolving themselves of any responsibility. Think tobacco. 100's of thousands of lives per year for decades but there was "no clear evidence". The business of government is business which generates taxes and money, and the health and welfare of people are way down the line of priorities compared to the health and welfare of capitalism and profit. Acetone was getting a lot of attention for awhile until it was found that substitutes didn't work nearly as good, you don't hear about it anymore. The MEKP of polyester can change your life forever in a matter of seconds if it gets in your eyes, but it's essential to the process, so good luck. I read an account of a hobby kayak maker who kept a rabbit cage in his workshop. After butchering, it was inedible as it tasted like solidified styrene. When I was doing a lot of molding, my wife said the odor of styrene on my breath at night while sleeping was real annoying, even though I wore a respirator while working. In most shops, if the sun is just right, the small motes of fiberglass floating around is very pretty and more numerous than stars in the universe, but it brings to mind asbestoes. Composites and hi-tech are fun and wonderfull, but there are two sides to a coin. Paranoia isn't always bad. Sam

 

Sam, what is frightening is that in the 70's, in Denmark we had a huge strike because of epoxy - the employer were saying it wasn't dangerous, and no protection was needed and so forth. People went on strike because their co-workers got seriously ill. It worked. It was taken seriously.

Now, if you take a look at West Epoxy's "bible", there's a huge difference in the latest edition to the former, and to the third edition.

When I set out to do my project (building a small boat/dinghy), I tried to do without epoxy. The problem is, I want it to have a "varnished" surface, without cloth and so on, so I got stuck on either building it "old-style", or using epoxy. I chose epoxy, but it scares the shyte out of me, and I will do whatver I can to protect myself from that stuff.

I propably do sound overly paranoid to some, but I don't think I am. On most things in life, I really couldn't care less. I have more broken bones than most, because I like taking risks, but it's just that some risks are worth taking, while others simply seem like utter stupidity to me. Painter's brain springs to mind "oh, no, it's uncomfortable to wear a mask, so we don't bother". End result? What amounts to alzheimer's.

Seriously, if I were building a hull that were supposed to be coloured, with or without cloth, I'd go for something much less poisonous than epoxy.

Andre

 

It should be noted that epoxy is a 2 part system. From what I understand, it is the curing agent that can be nasty.

 

Last time I used polyester was in the 70's on my first boat building project. A stand up surfboard. Have built a dozen small boats since then. In the last 20 years or so I have used nothing but epoxy for glueing and sheathing timber etc. I sometimes use rubber gloves, but only when laminating large areas. I have never had a rash or any thing more than mild temporary irritation. I use an Australian made product these days, of very low odour and volatility, called Bote-Cote. I believe that epoxy is so superior to polyester that I wouldnt use polyester if you gave it to me for free!

 

I worked with a guy who had worked at a shower stall factory in the 70's in Ft. Lauderdale. No masks, gloves or anything. My favorite horror story of his was when the company introduced some new chemical. After a few weeks everybodies hands started going numb so the company quietly quit using it. I thought that was awful nice of them, too bad they didn't know it would do that beforehand.
There seems to be a high percentage of burnt out people amongst painters, I've always thought it sort of telling that most paint can openers have a bottle opener on the other end.
An 'excuse' from workers and employers that I've heard a lot is "I've done this for X amount of years and it hasn't hurt me/and I'm still alive". Usually as they do something like stir up the pressure treated wood in the hand warming fire barrel. You can't argue with that sort of logic, and sometimes you need the job too badly. Sam

 

Use the WEST system/Gougeon tyvek sleeves and dishwashing gloves sealed up with masking tape.

Yoke.

 

And have a gallon of vinegar ready for when it sticks to you despite your efforts.

 

When repairing stringers should all the roving(that was used to hold the stringer) be ground out to the original hull if it is very porous?