Epoxy Integral Potable Water Tanks - Regulations? Health Issues?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by CatBuilder, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. pauloman
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    pauloman Epoxy Vendor

    FDA approval is for food contact, not potable water. Not the same. You need standard 61 potable water approved coating. Generally these potable water approvals are only for tanks 800 or 1000 gallons.

    new round of potable water approved epoxies for tanks as small as 50 gallons (new testing measures - etc. now includes testing for lead) - coming soon

    Paul Oman - MS. MBA -- epoxyproducts.com

    A.K.A. “Professor E. Poxy” - “Old Goat” - “Epoxy Guru”
    epoxyfacts.com
    everything-epoxy.info
    epoxyguru.com

    epoxies since 1994
    Member: NACE (National Assoc. of Corrosion Engineers) -- SSPC (Soc. of Protective Coatings)
     
  2. FBZ
    Joined: Jun 2015
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    FBZ New Member

    What are the risks using a FDA rated 21CFR 175.300 coating vs. a Standard 61 Potable Water certified Epoxy resin?


    What actually happens when the coating is in contact with the water?
     
  3. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    I have an old Lindenberg 26 that was built in 1977 with a 12 gallon integral water tank in the keel sump, the keel bolt nuts are in the bottom of this tank
    with no access to service them so of course the tank is unusable for potable water. There are some advantages to integral tanks as they provide essentially a double bottom in those areas but perhaps a bladder inside the tank would solve possible contamination problems. I have built quite a few waste tanks as integral tanks as a lot of older boats don't have many places to put them and maximizing volume is important.

    Steve.
     
  4. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    In England, the tap water is perfectly safe to drink, though most prefer to pass it through an additional process to make it better to drink - it's called a brewery

    :D
     
  5. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    Actually there is some historical truth there - in the middle ages throughout europe beer was indeed drunk like water, including a drink called 'small beer' which was given to children. The alcohol level was much lower and it was not the highly carbonated drink we know today. But the process involved boiling water to steep the mash (sprouted grains) which killed a wide spectrum of pathogens and bacteria, and the fermentation had a similar benefit.

    In the east, from many centuries before, a similar benefit was arrived at using Tea where again the water was boiled and the tea itself has natural anti-biotic properties (like tea tree oil).

    So, when we fancy a beer it is all due to our ancestors aversion to drinking the water,
    Ancestors ROCK!

    :D:D:D
     
  6. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    There has been a tradition of avoiding drinking tap water throughout Europe more recently as the dangers of lead became more apparent.

    Lead was used in domestic pipes and through the 70's and 80's there were government grants to replace old lead piping with copper, there was some irony that the solder was at the time lead based and while 100 year old lead pipes were 100 % lead, the oxide layer was by that time so complete that the lead levels in domestic water saw a spike after the changeover for several years 'till the solder passivated. As a kid we always ran the tap for a minute or two in the morning before drinking it though we didn't know why at the time.
    Much of the problems of lead was not from the water but actually from the tetra-ethyl lead used as an octane booster in leaded petrol.

    Interestingly the word Plumber means a Lead Worker from the Roman word for Lead; Plumbum.

    Lead is also represented in the periodic table as Pb for the same reason.
     
  7. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    Standard chlorine bleach can be safely added to drinking water in the ratio of 1ml (1cc) to 1 gallon (us). Double if water is cloudy.

    I know, I know, you shouldn't mix metric and imperial units but in this instance the ratio is pretty compelling - and memorable is good!.

    Even if you choose not to drink it - adding the chlorine does keep the tank sweet for much longer. A friend uses a pool test kit to keep the chlorine level up to the correct concentration, he also takes on holiday to test the tap water - if told OK to drink he checks the Cl level and if too low or too high (overdosed to correct a possible contamination issue) he uses bottled water.

    ;)

    Wait 30 mins before drinking if you use chlorine to sanitise water, (boiling is always a better option)
     
  8. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    It is a good idea, if you are using the Chlorine bleach method to work out the capacity of the tanks and then make a dosing bottle.

    Fill an old plastic soda bottle with the measured amount(s) e.g. 320 cc of water, and then use tape and a permanent marker to show the levels on the outside so you know you're going to add the correct amount. Then tie it to a fresh bottle of bleach and store somewhere safe - you don't want the crew using it for trivial cleaning, so, ideally mark the bleach too.
     
  9. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    I have an old Gemini cat which has 2 x 30 gallon polyethelene tanks under the after berths which are very easy to remove for cleaning. When I bought it I did just that, unfortunately when the tanks were built they installed cleanout plates that are not quite large enough for an adult male to get an arm in past the elbow so it was not as easy as it should have been, however I got them spotless and will have no problem keeping them that way but the hoses are another story, nasty, so I re plumbed with pex but still. If I were living aboard and running water through the lines regularly I think it would be fine but like many who only use the boat occasionally and lay up for the winter water can sit in the lines and get nasty so, tank water for showering and washing dishes and fresh tap water from home for cooking, drinking and cleaning teeth, our Lake Superior tap water is as good as any bottled water, hell, I don't drink the tap water in most parts of the US, not because its unsafe but a lot of it tastes bad compared to ours.

    Steve.
     
  10. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I have a SS water tank and all copper lines. The water is always good, it has never gone rotten. Copper is anti bacterial, it helps keep the water from growing anything nasty.

    http://investmentwatchblog.com/copper-kills-99-9-of-bacteria-within-two-hours/

    Forget using fake copper pennies anymore, they are all zinc.
    Use real copper in the water tanks to help keep the tank clean.
    How about stripping wire insulation and putting in bare copper wire in the tank?
     
  11. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    They do this in Italy in the graveyards, a short piece of copper wire is dropped into the the water when fresh flowers are put on the graves - it kills mosquito larvae.

    Trace amounts of copper are required by the body and deficiency can cause premature grey hair, though it is also toxic in higher concentrations - cooking acidic foods, tomato and wine based sauces for example, in copper pans is to be avoided.

    I would say on the same vein, don't use the chlorine bleach method for tank sanitisation if there is significant copper in the system.
     
  12. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Yes, copper is good for you, and bad for disease causing organisms.
    I have never had to bleach the boat water system since buying it in 1998.
    The water has always been fresh and pure.
     
  13. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

  14. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    I once removed a beautiful copper water tank from a Grand Banks 42 wood trawler because the owner was worried about the his grandchildren drinking water from it because of the soldered seams.

    Steve.
     

  15. abosely
    Joined: Mar 2015
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    abosely Senior Member

    I'm not affiliated with or tested either of these yet. But planning on using the water filter system for sure and investigate the coatings to use.

    Life Saver lifesaver use.com and lifesaver systems.com for UK/EU portable water filter products look very good and I definitely plan on using them, in my home and on boat.

    Will have a place built in by gallery sink for a 20L Lifesaver Jerrycans to sit. And all drinking & cooking water will go thru it.

    If you look at their website it explains why I will do this.

    Second one, I'm just now starting to research about. Found out about Sound Specially Coating sscoatings.net on Building Tiger Blog, their building a Narai Mk IV.

    I'm interested in their Aquaply M & BrewCoat.

    They have FDA rated coatings for water tanks. One is BrewCoat, not sure yet if they have other options yet or not. I'll be talking with them & post what they say.

    Just putting this 'out there' as food for thought.

    I think a lot of us underestimate How important pure/clean water is and how bad a lot of water we consume really is. If it looks clear & tasts ok, how do we know, unless we test it. But that's not really an option normally especially for cruising sailers.

    But with a Lifesaver sys, I'll know the water is safe and will taste good to. :)

    It's not really expensive & is portable. I really like the small personal version to carry with me when I don't know the quality of water where I'm at.

    I'm sort of i sound like I'm promoting Lifesaver's products, it's just I think they have a product that is very helpful & important for our health & safety. After I started learning about water quality & what's in most of the water we drink it was rather eye opening.

    As I said, I have no affiliation with either of these companies.

    HTHs

    Cheers,Allen
     
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