epoxy filler+thickener?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by milfordadkins, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. milfordadkins
    Joined: Aug 2013
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    milfordadkins Junior Member

    so what is this filler everyone is talking about? and how do i get it ? i'm assuming it is used to thicken the epoxy?
     
  2. Mike Nickerson
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    Mike Nickerson Junior Member

  3. milfordadkins
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    milfordadkins Junior Member

    umm ok so which one is best for the epoxy layer on top of 18oz woven? i guess you would call it the fairing layer? and will 20gls of epoxy be enough to cover a bandido? 30ft loa and 8ft beam
     
  4. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You can buy fillers of various types through the major formulators and reformulators, which can be handy, but what's really best is to get an idea of what and why you need them. The fastest way to do this is to download the user's guide from WestSystem.com or the Epoxy Book from SystemThree.com. These will explain the materials, how and why they are used and offer tips to their application techniques. It would also be wise to download the Gougeon Brothers book on Boatbuilding. All of these are free and an information gold mine. Shop around, as the big formulators charge a lot more then other online businesses for the same stuff.

    To fill the weave of a coarse fabric, you'll want a fairly sloppy mix of a light weight filler material, such as Q-cells, micro balloons and talc. This will be mixed with a pinch of silica to improve viscosity.

    Your Glen-L plans should offer a BOM for the epoxy needs on your build.
     
  6. missinginaction
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    missinginaction Senior Member

    I learned from posts here that you can save a lot of time, effort (and sanding) by experimenting at getting a good filler for easy sanding smooth fillets. By trial and error I came up with the following. I use System 3 general purpose resin for this mix.

    For each ounce (or 30ml) of resin I mix I add the following in order:

    1/2 oz. or 15 ml. silica.
    1 oz. or 30 ml. q-cells or micro balloons.
    1 oz. or 30 ml. talc powder. Just get it at the grocery store.

    All these quantities are by volume.

    I'd vary the mix up or down a bit to taste, but wouldn't go any heavier on the silica.

    The addition of the talc makes for a smoother material that applies easier. I got the talc tip from PAR some time back so I want to give credit where it's due.

    MIA
     
  7. milfordadkins
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    milfordadkins Junior Member

    thanks, should be at the fairing step by april of next year... got from dec till then to get everthing else done
     
  8. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I have no issue with the 50/50 Q-cell/balloon and talc portion, but 20% silica will make it fairly hard to sand. It's touch to estimate just how much silica you'll need, because applications vary, as do environmental conditions, which affect the content required.

    As a rule, use only enough silica to control viscosity, nothing more or sand difficultly will result. Also, once you set on a mix that works, make up some big gars with this ratio of materials in it. This is the way I do it and I have 1 gallon gars with different mixes in them, which helps maintain a level of consistency, from batch to batch. I have three basic fairing mixes, one supper light for skim coats, another slightly heavier for bulking up shallow areas and another with yet more heavier material, so a screw head dimple or a planking divot can be filled.
     
  9. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    I'm kind of interested to hear if 20 gallons of epoxy is about right to cover the boat.
     
  10. pauloman
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: New Hampshire

    pauloman Epoxy Vendor

    fillers include fumed silica, micro balloons in several sizes, micro-fibers, cellulose and wood flour. see www.epoxyproducts.com/b_fillers.html for a complete list - should cost about $6 a quart or so for any of them

    Paul Oman - MS. MBA
    A.K.A. “Professor E. Poxy”
    www.epoxyfacts.com
    epoxies since 1994
    Member: NACE (National Assoc. of Corrosion Engineers) -- SSPC (Soc. of Protective Coatings
     
  11. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    20 gls seem a lot to me, but what do you plan to cover the boat with?
     
  12. milfordadkins
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    milfordadkins Junior Member

    18 oz woven and epoxy
     
  13. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Why would you use such a heavy fabric to sheath a hull, especially with epoxy? Do the plans suggest an 18 ounce roving?
     
  14. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    You need to get online to the multiple sites that have been suggested and do some reading.
    First place is the Gougeon's on Boatbuilding.
    Second is the West system site.
    Third is anyone who sells West, or System 3 or any of the other dozen epoxy suppliers.

    This is not a spoon feed operation, you need to do some reading your self.

    If you want cheap filler, just collect the sanding dust from wood you are working on, and mix it into the epoxy. Don't make it too thick or you won't be able to spread it.

    Otherwise, follow the West System directions. The similar materials can be bought from multiple places.

    I hope you don't take this as a slam, it is an honest suggestion. Knowledgeable people on the forum are willing to help, when you show some willingness to put in some effort. The more effort, the more value and the more help, typically.

    Good luck.
     

  15. milfordadkins
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    milfordadkins Junior Member

    wasnt really looking for cheap filler, just an idea on filler material... that was the only thing thing i didnt underatand, and i chose the 18oz, cause when i started i was going to build a van abba markv 39 and he mentioned that weight in the plans so i bought it and the decided on the bandido because i really wanted to install both my merc 165's and just figured the 18oz wouldnt hurt seeing as i already purchased it. 2 rolls of 120yrds, and i was going for 9/16 thick hull on the bandido, which is the thinnest the plans call for so the heavier cloth is a better idea right? i plan on installing the largest fuel tank i can and already figured the math and can get about 2.3 gallons an hour on both motors combined gonna use it for river travel and vacation when i return from overseas... and i have read the books they suggested and they were very informative, just needed a little clear up about the filler material, i am very adament about my own research never planned on getting spoon fed.....sorry if it seems that way.....
     
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