Epoxy experience?

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by rturbett, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    It cannot do harm.
     
  2. rturbett
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: FINGER LAKES, NY

    rturbett Senior Member

    Do you have any experience adding pigment to resin?
    I see some that claim to give an opaque finish. I would much rather go this route than gelcoat or painting for weight savings.
     
  3. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No problem, there are several convenient products at the market.Contact your resin supplier. Or look here for info:
    http://shop.ezentrum.de/4DCGI/ezshop?hid=27&sprachnr=2

    BUT...........you MUST paint the surface anyway! EP gets destroyed by UV rays!
    Therefore, not worth the effort.
    And some additional info about postcuring times in a tipical cold curing matrix:
    http://www.ezentrumbilder.de/rg/pdf/td_en_Epoxy_L_1100.pdf

    Regards
    Richard
     
  4. GG
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: MICH

    GG offshore artie

    Allen , just curious on what pro set epoxy were you using and how long was the pot life ? Allen was the pro set #125-1 with #229-1 or............ the longer the pot life the better .
     
  5. ahender
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Athens, GA USA

    ahender Junior Member

    G.G:

    I have not used Pro-Set but have considered it.

    Here's their chart for pot life.

    http://www.prosetepoxy.com/laminating_epoxies.html

    117LV/239 is the one that has the longest pot life, about 7 hours.

    Based on my Internet searches, the above epoxy is usually a special order item.

    CSTsales.com is about the only online site I have found that sells Pro-Set at their online store.

    Other sites carry it but you have to make a direct request to find out the price.

    Mas Epoxies is another company that has a long pot-file epoxy ( http://www.masepoxies.com/public/index.cfm?fuseaction=prodbrws.publicdetail&productid=69473 ).

    I have never used it. The viscosity is very low at 150-200.

    alan
     
  6. ahender
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    Location: Athens, GA USA

    ahender Junior Member

  7. rturbett
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: FINGER LAKES, NY

    rturbett Senior Member

    I got excited when I saw the pigments, but now realize you are right- I would have to paint it anyways for the UV protection
    Rob
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Be careful, as mentioned above, ALL hardeners with a long potlife have to be postcured. Some are fine with just 180°F or 80°C, many require 120°C to 150°C!!!
    As usual in our boating life, you cannot have the best of both worlds. And nothing for free.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. GG
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    GG offshore artie

    Thanks ever so much but that is not my concern i have been doing fiberglass repair for over thirty years and over 12 at Skater /Douglas Marine and started out using epoxy working at Gouegeon ( west system) when i was a young man . Richard i have been using epoxy for all repair for over 20 years now and im thinking of trying pro set but looking for some feed back , i mostly use the same epoxy that Skater does and IF I COULD GET A BETTER $$ PRICE AND IT WORKS AS WELL, I MIGHT BE WILLING TO MAKE A CHANGE .
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Yahhh, got it.
    But, you know, skills are not tattooed to the forehead.
    Regards
    Richard
     
  11. GG
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: MICH

    GG offshore artie

    Thank's Allen i have been on Gougeon Brother's site 4 or 5 times this week and talked with a rep about Bro Set . Allen just trying to get some basic feedback on the product from people who have used it and once again thanks .
     
  12. GG
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    GG offshore artie

    Richard i apologize and i know that skills are not tattooed on the forehead :D but sometimes on this forum you have to let people know that you are not a dummy down the trail of life . Once again i apologize.:cool: ;)
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Hey mate, no need for that, I took it with a grain of salt anyway! And many of us (me included) should do that more regularly.
    Again I am fine and was´nt bothered.
    Best
    Regards
    Richard
     
  14. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The epoxy brands listed on the comparison above aren't all of the formulators available, nor should it be considered exclusive. I've used most of those brands and currently use three different brands, none of which are on that list. The likely reason is that they couldn't prove their pet theories on these, so excluded them from the list.

    When it comes to marine grade laminating epoxy, all the major players in the industry produce products within very close physical properties of each other. Some are less likely to blush, others more clear, some less viscous at the same temperatures, etc., but all within a few percent of each other in cured physical properties.

    This leaves one to choose what they need, boiling it down to general environment you'll need to use it in (humidity levels and temperature mostly) and applications.

    Environmental concerns, viscosity, blush and cure rate. High temperature areas will need a slow or extra slow hardener to control working time. Colder areas need faster working times. In areas with high humidity, you'll have better luck with non-blushing formulations, though some areas you just can't avoid blush, regardless of the formulation.

    Application concerns would be, adhesive needs, coating needs, wetout, penetration and again cure rates according to ambient temperatures.

    Progressive isn't the cheapest epoxy going. I get some locally about 20% less then their cheapest stuff. I also get some proprietary extra slow stuff which costs almost as much as West System, but it's super slow and I can use it 95 degree weather.

    Rturbett, your issues are more application and experience related then brand type.

    Epoxy alone is not good for much more then sealing things. If you don't want runs and sags in vertical work, there's only two ways to avoid it, thicken it or apply it in a thinner coating.

    Except for clear or sealing coats, you'll almost always use some sort of reinforcement in straight epoxy. Reinforcements are several common filler materials and/or fabrics, like 'glass cloth.

    Practice with epoxy and more importantly the incorporation of reinforcement materials will make you a much better user. Your first attempts should be in out of the way and hidden location, as they'll be "children only a mother could love" sort of results. This is normal. It takes a little time to get a "feel" for epoxy, learning how much silica or milled fibers to use, etc. After a while you'll get quite good at it and find all sorts of things you can "fix" with epoxy and the right combination of reinforcements.
     

  15. alex folen
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    alex folen Flynpig

    My thoughts exactly PAR, on the post regarding the thermo properties of certain epoxies. You very must well be a Chemist as well? No? Temperature is a (big) factor as working with various type resins, as many may not know. I’ve experimented as you said before.FYI.
     
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