epoxy,epoxy, opps flooring epoxy

Discussion in 'Materials' started by aboyd, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. aboyd
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Fenwick,Ont

    aboyd Junior Member

    I was just wondering is a floor covering epoxy compatible with a regular laminating epoxy like the West or East systems. The reason I am asking is just went down to a performance coating store in my area and bought some 3:1 epooxy. The sales person reasured me that it was very comparable to the West system and alot of people buy this product for building boats but when I got the product home I noticed the mix is very thin. It is a 75% solids epoxy. After testing on several test pieces I noticed the mix was so thin that it drained away from my verticle tests. The one thing that the thin epoxy does very well is absorb into the test pieces of wood. So I was thinking of using this for sealing my new stringers, transom and other new pieces of wood on my boat. and then use a thicker mix epoxy for tabing them to my fiberglass boat. Is this advisable or should I just bite the perverbiable bullet and return my unopened containers and use the east system.
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You just got hosed by a salesman, take it back, immediately and try to get your money back. No self respecting boat builder would use that epoxy.

    Good epoxy is 100% solids, nothing less.

    This is a good product for a lot less the West System.
    http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=41

    Log onto West System's site and download their user's guide so you can get a handle on how to work with this stuff. There are also a lot of previous threads on the this site with much information about epoxy use.
     
  3. Jimbo1490
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Location: Orlando, FL

    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    When they quote a solids spec less than 100%, this means they are thinning with a 'non-reactive' diluent, usually an organic solvent or solvent blend. This is distinctly different from the 'reactive' diluents, which are called reactive because they cross link with the resin and become part of the cured mass. This is why an epoxy formulation that uses reactive diluents can still be called '100% solids'.

    Some very good epoxy systems use non-reactive diluents, but they are always spec'ed for an application where it is known with good certainty that the solvent will have a chance to evaporate before the resin cures. If the solvent is still there when the resin cures, you'll have mush, and mush is bad.

    Epoxy primers and topcoat paints are examples of systems that successfully use non-reactive diluents. The Epon SU-3 system used MEK to thin out a very thick, high molecular weight (semi-solid at room temp) epoxy system so that it could be used to wet out pre-preg. But the system was intended to be used on heated open rollers for pregging and used a very slow, elevated temp. curing agent to make sure the MEK was all gone by midnight to avoid the whole mush problem.

    You really can't guarantee this using a paint for wood saturation. If solvent gets trapped in the wood, it will compromise the bond and defeat the purpose of saturating the wood with epoxy in the first place.

    Jimbo
     
  4. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    aboyd,

    I concur with PAR and Jimbo. Your floor covering epoxy is meant as a self-levelling coating, and is heavily thinned to allow it to flow into a smooth, flat puddle when spread into a thin layer. In a thick layer, or when soaked into wood, the dilutants will have a hard time escaping and will leave a weak, mushy mess.

    Your salesman should never have allowed you to leave the shop with such a material if he knew there was a boat involved. If I were you, I'd return it, get my refund, and find a new distributor- one that knows what he's selling.
     
  5. aboyd
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Fenwick,Ont

    aboyd Junior Member

    Thanks for all the reply's there guy's I didn't think it was right when i opened one of the containers and it had the consistency of clear coat. Test pieces turned out terible now that it has cured over night some parts are still tacky. These people are ********, because asking 3 times if it was suitable for boat building the answer was always Oh yes. once on the phone before purchase,Twice in the store while purchsing, and the third time when I got the product home and opened the can I called right away. There web site claims 100% solid, sales rep at stores said it was a 75% solid, and I'm reading my tech data now and it says the clear wich I have is only 63% solids.

    EPOXAL 3:1
    Tech Data
    pot life 1 hour @70
    shelf life 1 year unopened
    mix ratio 3:1
    percent solids/volume 63%(clear) 73% (colours)
    cure time @ 72 recoat 4-5 hrs ,light trafic 14 hrs, full cure 7 days?????????
     

  6. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: The Netherlands

    Herman Senior Member

    Usually cheaper products (does not mean you pay less, but margins can be higher) use benzylalcohol to thin things down.

    Unmodified epoxy is a thick liquid (10.000 cps or in that area)

    There are 3 ways to make things usable:
    -using a destilation process and refractory techniques to select the shorter molecular chains, which have a lower viscosity. Expensive, but mechanical properties are very good. Not many epoxy producers use this process.
    Used for airplane, and other high tech applications.

    -thinning down with reactive diluents. These can be monofunctional or bi-functional. The latter gives better properties. (usually 1,2 hexanediole is used)
    Used for windmill blades, boats, etc.

    -thinning down with non-reactive diluent. This can be benzyl alcohol, aceton, mek (carcinogene!) or some other diluent.
    Used for ink, coatings, paint, epoxy flooring (the latter usually being a combination of reactive and non-reactive diluents)
     
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