English Punt with a twist

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by harleydave, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. harleydave
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    harleydave HarleyDave

    I've been searching around for a first boat to build and got hooked on the English Punts, completely by accident, while searching for information on Venetian Gondolas and Pupparins.

    Being a fan of the Venetian style of rowing, I decided to deviate from punting and instead want to build the boat with a forcole and row it instead. I may go with foam and fiberglass construction just to get something in the water this summer, and then attempt a small Venetian lagoon boat called the "Sciopon" out of wood. One day I hope to build a Pupparin, but that is a long way from here.

    I've been trying to enter the dimensions for this into free!ship or hulls but I don't know how to import the numbers as offsets. Its definitely intended for slow traveling on small lakes. Not shown is a fixed rudder in lieu of an asymmetrical hull to help the boat travel straight when rowed from the right.

    [​IMG]

    Any thoughts? Has anyone here built a punt?

    I have enjoyed reading the numerous posts on the forum, always an interesting discussion to be found. Thank You.
     
  2. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

  3. keith66
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    keith66 Senior Member

    Interesting idea, the Punt is very similar in purpose to the Venetian boats.
    The Sciopon was the type of boat used by the fishermen & wildfowlers often carrying a large calibre Gun for shooting ducks.
    We went to Venice some years ago and met a Gentleman called Gilberto Penzo, he is passionate about the boats of the lagoon & has a fascinating shop where he builds models sells plans etc, well worth a look if you ever get to Venice.
    His website is http://www.veniceboats.com/eng-home.htm
     
  4. harleydave
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    harleydave HarleyDave

    Wow rwatson those punt plans are beautiful. I'm going to buy one of those even if its just as a guide for my own design plans. Thank you.

    Keith, Gilberto is an amazing guy! I have two books of his and two full sets of plans, one for the gondola and one for the pupparin, with the carolina and the scipion on the way as we speak. History would surely be at a loss without him surveying all those boats. Interesting story, he looked me up on face book and sent me an invite after I bought his plans and two of his books. Very cool. When I finally visit Venice I plan to stop by his shop and visit one of the rowing clubs that I hear are so welcoming to outsiders.

    Ill keep everyone updated as I get the construction going. Thanks for the help guys.
     
  5. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Boats built of 1,2 and 3 sheets of plywood.FREE plans

    On the computer, type in "Hannu's Boat Yard" Hannu is from Finland and is a master at simple boat design that is efficient and uses every scrap of wood in a sheet of plywood. His designs are truly amazing and I am in the middle of building his 4 foot dinghy "Half Pea" and one of his dory designs. This might be of help to you. He's also got a design that is close to the British punt as does Selway Fisher.
     
  6. Bob E
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    Bob E some day

    Gondolas are able to be rowed with an oar on one side because they have asymmetrical hulls and are long. I suspect your punt would be very difficult to make much progress in with an oar on one side. You would need a lot of rudder, so much so that it would act as a sea anchor. A punt does not have the length that helps a gondola track straight.

    Bob
     
  7. keith66
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    keith66 Senior Member

    The asymetric hull of the Gondola is a relatively new phenomenon only in use for little over a hundred years, before that they were symetrical.
    The Sandolo and similar boats are symetrical but can be rowed with one or two oars or oarsmen. The English punts are often quite long of similar proportions and the long straight chine would add to directional stability.
    In the end its worth a try as if it doesnt work just fit another Forcole & row standing up Venetian style with a pair of crossed oars!
     
  8. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    and canadian canoes are symetrical, and can be paddled from one side only if you know the trick
     
  9. Luckless
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    Luckless Senior Member

    The Jstroke or similar concept isn't that hard to learn, and aren't Gondolas usually rowed with a fully in water stroke?
     
  10. keith66
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    keith66 Senior Member

    Gondolas are usually rowed with the blade in the water most of the time, the two man ferries that crisscross the Grand canal, Tragheto's often row with blades out of the water, there are moe variations in Venetian rowing technique than you can shake a stick at.
    Here is a link to an excellent site showing some of this, enjoy!

    http://www.forcole.com/eng-home.htm
     
  11. skeech
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    skeech New Member

    I've been rowing Venetian style for several years. The last four on a modified Jon boat, which due to a squared off transom (meant for an outboard motor) is not as pleasant to row alla Venezia as I expect your punt, as drawn, will be. Although it takes a few years (yes years) to master, you can be fairly navigable within a season. You continually improve. The guy who showed me how to row (in Venice) told me over and over (as I veered off intended courses), " you can maneuver to a millimeter Paul". MUCH later I found he was right.

    I moved the standard Jon boat oarlock on the starboard to just in front of the rear seat (the seat runs from gunwale to gunwale). I straddle the seat with my left foot in front and the right behind on a little kick plate I fixed to the floor board. I strongly suggest you put the kick plate in (you see them on the Pupparini and gondole) -- like a runner’s block. It would be running from the stern-port corner to the bow-starboard corner. I found 45 deg perfect, but a beginner may need less to start out (though I think using correct form early is best in the long run despite the initial discomfort and awkwardness). Anyway, the bow of the Jon boat, like your punt boat, lacks the pointed stem of the Venetian boats but I haven’t found a problem with it.

    Your concept as drawn at least will give you a high platform like the pupparin and the gondola, which is really great, but you’ll have to use the longer oars made for those boats rather than the shorter ones made for the mascereta, sciopon and sandola because you stand inside these instead of on a poop-deck. Higher up, you are farther from the water.

    Great idea! But you might want to order some drawings from Gilberto Penzo’s website, to get some further ideas. I keep a 1/10 scale drawing of the mascereta on my wall to remind me of my next project.

    You may need to add ballast in your bow for proper trim unless you make your boat over 25-feet. I have about 100-lbs of ballast in my light Al boat, to counter my 175-lb body.

    Paul; Austin, Texas
     

  12. skeech
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    skeech New Member

    Paul again. I wasn't clear on my kick plate I think. The 45-deg I mentioned is how much the kick plate deviates from the bow to stern center-line. I didn't mention how much of an incline I used. Sitting at home I picture about a 22-deg incline, which is comfortable and about what was both my gondole I used to own. You could always just throw some course sand onto the area over some wet paint and add another coat of paint for a non-slip foot hold. I sometimes wish I'd already done this to my kick-plate.

    Paul; Austin, TX
     
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