Engine for Antarctica

Discussion in 'Motorsailers' started by Letsgosailing, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Tenders operate near the shore and can be maintained dockside. You might want to contact Yanmar to discuss your plans for the dtorque outboard. They're marketing it primarily for shore based patrol & rescue vessels (typically government operations). If you have a slot in the stern of your vessel where it can be raised up clear of the water while sailing that might work. Bear in mind that slot will cost you cabin and/or storage space that could have otherwise been used on a regular sailing yacht with an inboard diesel.
     
  2. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    I recall that thread Angélique. I recall there were concerns about carbon monoxide from the exhaust, and it also noted the loss of cabin space, additional hull drag and other factors. However, it can anchor in the shallows and that appears to have been his main goal. I wonder if he has built it yet.
     
  3. BlueBell
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    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    I like how the Gulf of Alaska commercial fish boats run their engine coolant through the deck rails to keep tons of ice from forming.
     
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  4. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Joseph T mentioned early on in this thread the very fine aluminium vessel 'Magnus Zaremba'.

    Here is a link to another, very similar, vessel, specifically designed for high latitudes by Ed Joy (he used to work with Chuck Paine).

    Seal - 56' High Latitude Exploration Yacht https://www.edjoydesign.com/seal/

    Notice the similarity? This type of vessel seems to have evolved as being the best all-rounder for the 'average' person who wants to sail to high latitudes.
    Why try to re-invent something 'better', when others have done it for you?
    And please, don't even think about using an outboard motor (not even a diesel one) as your main propulsion unit. If it was viable, the odds are that someone would have done it already.

    For more info about Seal, have a look at her Owners' website - Expedition Sail -- charter yacht Seal in Alaska, Antarctica & South Georgia https://www.expeditionsail.com/
     
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  5. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Excellent info bajansailor. The Seal is very well equipped. The pilot house is a great viewing area if the weather kicks up. After all, in many cases it's all about the view on these adventures. If the weather is bad the enclosed pilot house/viewing area would be a big plus. One would be inclined to use a vessel like this and bring an inflatable dinghy with portable outboard to venture ashore. That's what most yachts do today.

    Update: A quote from Seal's owner on his lifting rudder:

    "We had an incredibly positive experience designing SEAL with Ed Joy, who did all the detail work on our 56-foot expedition boat while working at Chuck Paine and Associates. SEAL is an unusual boat, with a lifting keel and rudder, and Ed’s rudder is the envy of the Antarctic charter fleet. We hit an uncharted ledge at 8 knots and the rudder lifted as designed without losing any paint - many boats would have lost their rudders in a similar hit. On the rudder, in particular, he provided a amazing blend of innovation and practicality, and also managed to keep the construction costs down. SEAL has sailed about 35,000 miles since launching, including to Greenland, Antarctica (twice), South Georgia, and numerous trips through the Cape Horn archipelago and the Beagle Channel.” — Hamish & Kate Laird, owners of the 56' high latitude exploration yacht SEAL"

    Welcome to Ed Joy Design of Camden, Maine https://www.edjoydesign.com/home/

    I would say look no further for a polar yacht with plans available for building. Truly a special boat concept.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  6. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Related thread just started, relevant keel cool info might come up there...

     
  7. MARKALFREDSTEELE
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    MARKALFREDSTEELE Junior Member

    I'm in the early stages of planning a trip to Arctic waters with the prospect of later going to Antarctica with several crew members whom are helping me with the future necessary refit. However some debate has arisen that needs to be settled.

    Would it be a reasonable prospect to fit an outboard as the main engine. The benefits being, less through hulls, no prop shaft or propeller to tangle, leak or be damaged, increased interior stowage, easier maintenance, removable from the water when out of use.

    In theory it sounds like a good idea. But how long could you realistically run an outboard for as a main engine in possible very rough conditions. Would the engine require alterations to make it more suitable for cold conditions and the hostile environment.

    I know larger Wharrams designs use lifting outboards that were the inspiration for the idea.
    Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]
     
  8. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    I don't think it really matters re if you are going to Antarctica or the Arctic, the general consensus on here seems to be that an outboard engine on the boat is not a very good idea really.
    If it was, then the boats mentioned above like Seal and Magnus would have them.
     
  9. BlueBell
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    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    It could be a good back-up.
     
  10. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Info from another member on this Forum, who has actually travelled to Antarctica on several expeditions, and who had to support small equipment, is that they abandoned outboards after the first few attempts.
    The unreliability was one factor, but OB's are not designed for constant sub-zero temperatures, so operationally they were unsatisfactory too.
    But, having said that, there is a new range of Diesel outboards being sold now, and they may be a better solution.
    Unless you wanted to be a testbed for these new outboards, you would want to stick with proven marine solutions.
     
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  11. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    I can't imagine considering outboards in a remote area such as these. Outboards can drown. The diesel outboards can drown. I cannot think of any conceivable reason to use an outboard and I am putting outboards on my category B catamaran, but it isn't going to remote nowheres....

    The problems of outboards are so many here that the post seems like a clickbait.

    No heat from the engines for the cabin.
    Alternator output from outboards is very, very low unless you go way up in hp.
    Drowning the air intakes (that is terrifying because you need the engines at critical moments; not just for fair winds). I am even concerned about this in my boat.
    The engines are cold when not being run. Cold parts break easier.
    Working on the engine if something does go wrong puts you in the elements.
    Diesel can gel in the cold.

    I think I could keep going, but I didn't see anyone mention drowning, only I didn't read the entire thread either.
     
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  12. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    A bit alarmist, I think, fallguy, modern outboards are a very highly evolved product, and cater to most applications these days.
     
  13. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Not alarmist; realist. In fact, in speaking with the designer of my build; he told me the other boat of similar design has indeed experienced engines dipping under. They did not cut out, but it is a valid concern.

    As for the other reasons; the Yamaha F70 was specified for my cat; the alternator output is 16 amps. My electrical designer was concerned about the output visavis autopilot. The 90 horse has a 35 amp alternator. So, we felt compelled to go up to the 90s. However, a rather small diesel inboard can support much more power production.

    My other points are also not alarmist, but realistic. Any type of problem on the outboard is much more difficult to repair.

    I am glad you are less concerned about engines drowning, but it is a valid ding on my boat vs inboards.
     
  14. KeithO
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    KeithO Senior Member

    Funny, once temperatures drop below freezing, I have never been able to get my carb fed 2 stroke outboard to start. Near the south pole you can have -30 to -50 in the summer with little warning. Im pretty sure none of the cooling system not water jacket is freeze protected so the castings can split if all water is not drained (winterized). In addition, since the engines are raw water cooled, there is no possibility of protecting the engine with glycol based antifreeze.

    I am certain that the person making the original post has never lived in a northern climate, let alone an arctic one...

     

  15. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    From what I've read so far most outboards in the Arctic/Antarctic regions are used with small dinghy's & zodiacs that are deployed from larger vessels. Anybody considering or recommending an outboard for use as the PRIMARY method of propulsion for a larger vessel should provide a reference from a research or expedition team who has successfully used one. That is to say, someone who has motored ACROSS the Southern or Arctic oceans with nothing but an outboard engine(s). So far there have been suggestions, but nobody has given any actual references.

    Until then, I'm with fallguy and others who dispute their potential for the previously noted reasons. For primary propulsion, the potential setbacks of an outboard motor outnumber the benefits of an inboard.

    In case there is any doubt, a reference of your typical large Southern Ocean waves are referenced below. If you have a video of an outboard motor surfing these waves do post it.

     
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