Engine for Antarctica

Discussion in 'Motorsailers' started by Letsgosailing, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Letsgosailing
    Joined: Sep 2018
    Posts: 15
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Wales

    Letsgosailing Junior Member

    Interesting twist this thread has taken, I have heard of an ill fated expedition where a Norwegian group lost their boat and three crew. They went completely without authorization and used quad bikes for an attempt on the South pole. There is a bit of controversy over the circumstances of the vessel (Beserker) sinking. some say it was because it was overloaded and encountered severe weather, some say more sinister circumstances are to blame.
     
  2. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 328, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

  3. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,862
    Likes: 296, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Yeah, they also insisted on all Nuclear materials and Oil drums be removed after use, instead of burying them like some camps used to do.

    Of course, you are a climate denier then, and don't believe in contamination by heavy metals. Its just "hypothetical", right ?
     
  4. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,862
    Likes: 296, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Yeah, the Flat Earthers made a big deal of the "secret armies" guarding the "ice wall". Some people just have no idea of the real dangers in such remote and hostile natural areas.

    "The Norwegian sailboat “Berserk” sent out a distress call from the Ross Sea in the Antarctic on tuesday, february 22. at 05:20. After a short while the signal stopped, and nothing has been heard or seen of the “Berserk” since. At the time, one of the worst hurricane storms for years with winds up to 60 knots and waves 6-8 meters was sweeping the area. The boat with a crew of three is now considered lost, but a land party of two who tried to reach the South Pole on ATV’s, managed to make it to McMurdo Sound base and were flown to safety."
     
  5. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 654
    Likes: 75, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    So they can contaminate somewhere else instead. Brilliant.

    LOL. Cockoo.

    BTW- Calling someone a "climate denier" doesn't have the sting you think it does outside the insular world of the Globlal Warming® extremists.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  6. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 856
    Likes: 107, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 218
    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    Holy cow a lot of fussing going on. Yes there is a polar code and below are couple of references. It applies mainly to shipping at this time. It goes without saying any attempt should be well thought out or a crew could be doomed by ice, raging seas, subzero temps, etc. Rescues can be very, very expensive.

    Good luck and signing out.

    International Code for Ships Operating in Polar Waters - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Code_for_Ships_Operating_in_Polar_Waters

    Polar Code http://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/HotTopics/polar/Pages/default.aspx
     
  7. Letsgosailing
    Joined: Sep 2018
    Posts: 15
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Wales

    Letsgosailing Junior Member

    Flat earth and climate aside.
    Is there really any reason I couldn't use an outboard with the same horse power as the '' factory fit' inboard. Surely the fact that the engine is retractable and improves hull integrity would be greatly appreciated in the Southern Ocean and beyond.
     
  8. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 856
    Likes: 107, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 218
    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    Simply put, an outboard alone is not the optimal choice for primary engine power in a sailing yacht. Below are some considerations.

    • Needed to top off batteries (navigation, bilge, lights, etc....anything that requires power) each day. Typically the diesel or diesel generator is ran in the morning and evening to ensure batteies are always topped off with power.
    • An inboard diesel serves a dual purpose to also warm the cabin. Without it...your crew will freeze.
    • If you need to perform a man overboard (MOB) recovery, someones life could be at risk if a less reliable outboard does not work.
    • For auxiliary power, solar panels don't work as efficiently in the polar zones because there are fewer hours of sunlight and it's often overcast.
    As you can see a reliable inboard diesel will be your lifeline in more ways than one. Ponder an outboard all you wish, but you'll need to come up with reliable systems that can accommodate recharging, cabin heat, and motoring for hundreds/thousands of miles if need be.
     
  9. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 856
    Likes: 107, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 218
    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    And one more important consideration: The internal cooling jackets of an outboard engine are well known to be prone to freezing. It is routine maintenance to drain all water out of a lower unit completely to ensure the water does not crack the engine and lower unit housing. From a technical perspective, this would render the notion of an outboard in freezing weather non-starter. Regardless of engine type (gasoline or diesel) the cooling system of an outboard is very vulnerable in freezing weather.

    The same could be said for an inboard, but a backup cooling system (e.g. liquid coolant routed through the keel) will ensure the engine can run even if the primary water intake is frozen/blocked.
     
  10. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 654
    Likes: 75, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    I get the distinct impression that the OP really doesn't understand the scope of what he's asking for/about. Thus ref. post #2.
     
    JosephT likes this.
  11. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 856
    Likes: 107, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 218
    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    He needs detailed reasons. There they are. Until he stares those reasons down really good (with a gulp or three of of scotch perhaps) he may not change his mind. I don't mind offering suggestions. Just don't want to see another sailing Darwin award being passed out if it can be avoided.

    Speaking of Darwin, about 5 years or so ago a fellow wanted to sail around the world in very short sailboat (~10ft ??) . He was from Australia as I recall. Any word on whether he set sail in that bathtub? Hopefully not.
     
  12. Milehog
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 394
    Likes: 25, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 215
    Location: NW

    Milehog Clever Quip

    Think about an outboard hanging off the stern of a sailboat in choppy or breaking seas, out of the water and then flooded, alternatively. Backing down with the slightest bit of ice... Nope.
    You need the prop in the water and the engine out of the water.
     
    rwatson likes this.
  13. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 856
    Likes: 107, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 218
    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    You’re very right. 60-80 knot winds are the routine between low pressure systems that come through every 48 hours like clockwork. Just when a storm blows past another starts within 12 hours or less. Hard to catch a break. Building sized waves means high speed downwind sailing. Once you proceed into 50-60 degrees of latitude you’re well into the ice line with either pole (last latitude line an iceberg was recorded). Here you typically enter crazy big waves + random chunks of ice. Radar is needed to spot both squalls and icebergs. That means someone on the radar 24/7. Crew needs to rotate shifts for the radar duty. Fresh set of eyes every hour or so to ensure we were constantly alert and ready to change course.

    Just can’t imagine an outboard except perhaps for limited use in a protected harbor. Weather can change very rapidly.

     
  14. Letsgosailing
    Joined: Sep 2018
    Posts: 15
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Wales

    Letsgosailing Junior Member

    I do understand the scope and reasoning against the idea of having an outboard as the primary engine. The purpose of the discussion was not that I'm dong this regardless but are there any issues I've not thought of. The concept was more based on modifications of the outboard to make it appropriate.
    • Cabin heating can be provided by a diesel stove
    • Use the yanmar dtorque 111 (Diesel)
    • Generator in previous engine compartment
    • Modify the cooling to a keel cooled closed system+ external exhaust so not to pollute the waters
    • Possibly bring air + fuel filters inside for ease of maintenance.
    • Mount the outboard on a setup where it can be raised from the water and brought into the cabin. (track/rails through modified companion way)
    Maybe it is a madcap idea but I know outboards are used on tenders down there. I'm just sure technology has progressed enough to be able to take what thousands of boats across the globe do as standard and apply it to a sailing vessel
     

  15. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 328, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Some outboard pros and cons are discussed on the below linked thread, but the Antarctic region is a bit worse than the there discussed application, so the mentioned disadvantages are also more severe there.


    BTW, the origin of your current avatar came up on the Random Picture Thread as an aside of this post, scroll a bit down for the Shackleton ads.

    Good luck !
     
    JosephT likes this.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.