electrolysis in wood

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by skaraborgcraft, Jan 2, 2024.

  1. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 1,337
    Likes: 97, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 274
    Location: Newport News VA

    sdowney717 Senior Member

  2. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 1,337
    Likes: 97, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 274
    Location: Newport News VA

    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Yes the frame ends are socketed into the keel.
    Garboards are bronze screwed onto inner keel ledges.
    Which I figure helps hold it all together. Can't imagine the keel zippering off the boat.
    I have never seen it move independent of the hull. I have looked a few times when running in waves. Years ago I read Eggs, the whole boat is moving in different directions in rough water and can be noticed, but who knows if those were old worn out hulls.

    20 years ago, I replaced most all frames from chine down to the keel, I used selected PT SYP, and they are remaining in perfect condition. This haul on starboard side, I plan to replace a few frames I had left 20 years ago as back then they looked ok, but I noticed some frame ends are not looking very good. Kinda mad at myself for not doing every single one back then, I have learned a lot working on the boat.

    Most every frame has a large deep white oak floor sitting directly on top. So frames were screwed to floors, and planks to frames. For a keel to zipper off, all the frame ends would have to break. Frames are spaced so that about 6, or in some places 7 inches free space exists frame edge to next frame edge, and frames are 2" wide , 1.25" or 1.125" tall.

    When I re-screwed hull, I put in 4000 bronze screws, going from size 10 to #12
     
  3. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 1,337
    Likes: 97, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 274
    Location: Newport News VA

    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Also, on the nylon Cordura fabric, thinking just go over and around the bottom and up keel side 3 inches, not the entire keel surface. I was thinking the keel might expand more than the cloth will. I just don't know exactly what to expect, but I like to experiment. And I keep thinking of trying the Durabak on top of 5200 on the bottom. I really also want to put Durabak smooth on the upper deck and house sides, as the white paint always gets cracky looking. However the hull plank sides, that same white paint always looks great, maybe the sun is so direct on top the baot makes a difference to the paint. I also have not decided to use a HDPE worm shoe, wood, or nothing.
     
  4. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 1,337
    Likes: 97, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 274
    Location: Newport News VA

    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Today cut the bottom of the floor and glued in white oak, so that it touches down on the inner keel
    Used a grinder and 24 grit to smooth down the keel top


    upload_2024-10-12_18-45-42.png

    upload_2024-10-12_18-47-40.png

    Glued in place, whacked it in with 2 lb ball peen hammer. So it is a good solid fit

    upload_2024-10-12_18-50-4.png
    I also made the little filler oak piece for the removed spike.
    It is very tight space to work in up front. There is a dividing panel here for the forward berths so it is a 24" space to work around. I am doing the best I can.

    upload_2024-10-12_18-48-50.png

    It was tough to cut the bottom of the floor even. I used a grinder and a 5" diamond stone grinder reversed and was able to get it done, but had to chisel a little bit of floor as diamind wheel is not wide enough. And it made some wood smoke too. I did by hand scratch up the bottom with 24 grit zirconia abrasive wheel I use on the grinder with spiral cool backer rubber disc, that is a great tool for sanding wood fast

    Benchmark Abrasives 7 Inch Sanding Discs Zirconia Resin Fiber Grinding Disc for Grinding, Stripping on Wood, Fiberglass, Steel, Metal, 7/8" Arbor Angle Grinder Sanding Disc, 25 Pack - 24 Grit - Amazon.com

    diamond cutter screws onto grinder, and the protruding part I used as a guide to slide the blade even height along the cut. This is an impressive diamond grinder. for the price
    Amazon.com: SHDIATOOL Granite Diamond Cutting Wheel for Marble Quartz, 5 Inch Fast Cutting Grinding Shaping Diamond Disc for Angle Grinder with 5/8-Inch-11 Thread 125mm : Industrial & Scientific
     
  5. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 1,337
    Likes: 97, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 274
    Location: Newport News VA

    sdowney717 Senior Member

    If someone really wanted, they could drill a 1/2 " hole down thru floor, inner keel and skeg and run a bronze threaded rod with nuts to secure floors inner keel and the outer skeg keel as a single unit, which would be a better construction method than just a iron spike nail. Likely 1/2 " bronze threaded rod is very expensive. I wonder if Duplex SS alloy 2507 would be cheaper

    I saw where it is more corrosion resistant than bronze, and is stronger

    Duplex SS parts are showing up on some expensive boats, and is used in offshore industries, oil rigs, in the ocean.

    2205 vs. 2507 Duplex Stainless Steel: In-Depth Comparison of Properties, Applications, and Benefits" - Lion Metal (shlionmetal.com)

    Found a seller of alloy 2205 and 2507 threaded rod. so the products exist.
    Duplex & Super Duplex Steel Threaded Rods | Duplex Steel (extreme-bolt.com)
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2024
  6. Herreshock

    Herreshock Previous Member

    Thinking about this problem maybe hardwood screws could be the solution for durable wooden boat construction with three drills, one to make the hole, other to insert a metal screw to create the threads and then other insert the wooden screw without much effort and without head just a hex driver

    [​IMG]

    This with without head,just hexagonal screwdriver hole like this
    [​IMG]


    These screws can be made with a lathe and used for strip planking, cold forming, etc

    Also maybe a special drill that makes longitudinal wedges so a wooden edged nail is hammered, maybe those longitudinal wedges can be made by hammering a wedged steel cylinder after drilling a hole

    [​IMG]
    Ikea furniture use these longitudinal wedges but they are too thin


    Also maybe stone screws could do too
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2025

  7. Dave G 9N
    Joined: Jan 2024
    Posts: 131
    Likes: 60, Points: 28
    Location: Lindstrom MN

    Dave G 9N Senior Member

    Sdowney, interesting as always.
    It's Nylon, same as Nylon rope, well known for stretching.

    The Jb weld coating to insulate the bronze from the wood should be effective, but for the effort involved I would recommend considering heat shrink tubing with the adhesive lining.
    Ancor 1/2 in. x 48 in. Adhesive Lined Heat Shrink Tubing

    I would not recommend 316 due to the possibility of differential oxygen cell (like crevice corrosion). I have seen 316 bolts in a salt water tank last for several years, then waste away to next to nothing in 3-6 months. You never know when it will start, but once it gets going, it can be quick. The heads were exposed and looked brand new, but inside the block, they were mostly rust. When the closed off area starts to corrode, the galvanic potential in the confined space shifts so the head and shank act like dissimilar metals. That is what the charts indicate where you see two potentials for stainless steel.

    Using allthread instead of headed bolts with nuts: West System ran some fatigue tests about 50 years ago for a wooden windmill blade that they described in a talk at the Mystic Small Craft Festival (before it was named after Gardner). They said that the strongest joints were made by drilling slightly oversize and setting the bolts in epoxy. I'm pretty sure they said that the joint was strong enough to break the bolts, but it was a long time ago, and given a deep enough hole, Elmers glue might break a bolt. Threading into the wood was not as strong. Based on their testing, I would set threaded rod in epoxy or rough up the surface of the G-10 rod or wooden dowel and skip threading them. G-10/FR4 rod is rolled from a light weight glass cloth, so it is half as strong as pultruded fiberglass rod in tension. McMaster doesn't list pultruded fiberglass, which has a tensile strengtjh of 100,000 psi. Pultruded allthread is available, but the threads cut the fiber, so the shear strength is low in the threads. Might as well rough it up and count on lots of surface area in contact with the adhesive. Metal threads are stronger. A cheap, strong, readily available pultruded glass rod is sold as rebar for concrete.

    Threaded rod at McMaster, chosen for wide variety of stuff and price comparison, if not the best price, sells Alloy 20, SI bronze, duplex stainless, 316 stainless and allthread and G-10/FR4 smooth rods.
    1/2"-13 Alloy 20 Stainless Steel
    1 ft, 80,000 psi, $64.40

    1/2"-13 Silicon Bronze
    1 ft. 50,000 psi, $37.50

    1/2"-13 316 Stainless Steel
    1 ft. 75,000 psi, $18.33
    1 ft. 70,000 $12.88

    1/2" smooth Garolite G-10/FR4 Rods
    1 ft. : 35,000-50,001 psi, $8.45
    4 ft. : 35,000-50,000 psi, $29.34
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. sdowney717
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    303
  2. IwoodifIcould
    Replies:
    10
    Views:
    676
  3. sdowney717
    Replies:
    33
    Views:
    1,192
  4. CDBarry
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    2,225
  5. Rod Tait
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,423
  6. Brian Fredrik
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,917
  7. Person named james
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    4,759
  8. Samdaman
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,472
  9. CaptChap
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,935
  10. johnnythefish
    Replies:
    16
    Views:
    2,829
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.