Ekranoplans and ground effect

[mydauphin]

If Howard Hughes thought it could have, he would have. He already broke the law by flying even this high. On one interview afterward, he mentioned something about controls being heavy and was afraid of going higher.
Remember WIGS can get out of GE for short periods.

If he would have made wings shorter and put flaps, and war would have gone longer, who knows we could have been using Giant wigs to land troops in Japan.

By the way, it was the first composite structured plane also.

 

[kroberts]

So, you're saying the entire design was flawed because the first flight there was something wrong? How many large planes, boats or land vehicles work perfectly the first time they are tested? The first several times out, you taxi a while and return to inspect the plane, even if everything seems fine.

Hughes was at a serious disadvantage at that time. There was the court case being run by his enemies in the government, the public eye for his eccentricities as much as anything. He couldn't obviously prepare the plane for a full flight under those conditions lest someone suspect something and prevent him from even starting the engines. There is no manufacturer of anything at all who would risk a crash under those circumstances. Had he crashed the plane, history would have viewed him in a much less favorable light.

Were he to do that today, he would be in prison simply for using a taxiway as a runway under those conditions.

 

[mydauphin]

Perhaps the design would have work as planned and it never had a chance. But it was not failure, it was a very innovative design from which many ideas where taken. Even its wing design was ahead of its time. HH ended his life as a mad man but he was a genius for decades. I saw the Spruce Goose when it was in Long Beach next to Queen Mary. I did not really appreciate its design at the time. I wish to go see it again some day.
Another point of the Goose was it designed in theory to be somewhat economical in materials. It was designed to be a personnel carrier. They thought that thousands where going to have to built to transports troops across the oceans to avoid submarine attacks. But the blockades were broken, anti-submarine teams became effective and the Goose less need. Finally, the war ended before it was needed.

 

[Boston]

as I remember in aeronautics history he was over budget on the project
the gov decided to abandon it and he was pissed off cuase they would not pay out his expenses with the excuse that it would never work
so he finished it with his own money
flew it one time to prove em wrong
and never flew it again
also refused to submit it for contract even though I think the war had ended
by the time he had it finished
he rubbed there nose in it at the beginning of the Korean war when it was nearly lost cause they had nothing to move heavy armor in except ships which were slow
my two cents
interesting thread kids
and yes
it used ground effects to assist in lift at first but was designed to be fully capable of sustained flight
kinda of a hybrid although it was as much of a mistake of the design teem as not
mostly side effect of what happens to any wing as it approaches ground
IE
ground effects

its what made that landing in the Hudson river so sweat earlier this year
the guy put that plain down perfectly on its belly
not easy given that with wheals there is not even remotely the ground effect as on a belly landing
or at least thats what AOPA teaches in its safety seminars
you gain lift the lower you go
so people tend push the nose down and next thing that happens
is it goes down
way to fast
and crash
rather than a nice easy nose up belly landing

 

[mydauphin]

There was even a congressional hearing on it, they were calling him a crook for not delivering on his war time contract. Yes, it was overbudget, but it can out of HH own money. It was way ahead of its time. HH just got so upset with congress and the whole thing he abandon it when he proved them wrong. It would have made a great jumbo airliner, but by then Boeing was already working on the first Jumbo Jet, and nobody wanted a jumbo flying boat.

 

[Boston]

for which they needed jumbo airports
which at the time they didn't have
I say Mr H got shafted
although at the same time he was up in front of the holly wood ratings comity for the size of the breasts on his leading lady
seems they wanted to rate the movie r and he wanted it rated pg
and the girl was a little to much for the sensibilities of the little old men who were being reminded what a girl was supposed to look like

dam
we know way to much about HH

I got history minor from CU

 

[kroberts]

Here's the link to the shortest, most concise version of the story I have seen:

http://www.sprucegoose.org/aircraft_artifacts/exhibits.html

The truth of the matter was that the hearings were instigated by corrupt government officials. Hughes successfully defended himself against those charges, but only after significant effort. Yes, the goose was over budget, but it had several first-time technologies and that almost never goes to plan.

The goose would probably have needed a fifth iteration before becoming practical. The simulators, the guys say it was difficult to take off with rated power -- but it would take off and fly.

 

[apex1]

It would have made a great jumbo airliner, but by then Boeing was already working on the first Jumbo Jet, and nobody wanted a jumbo flying boat.

Well Mydauphin, there have been almost 20 years in between the days of the "Goose" and the 747. The facts are much simpler, there was no demand for large "Flying Boats" after WWII was over.
And even HH was in doubt if she could fly out of ground effect `cos the P&W engines did not deliver the 3000hp they should (but even if, that was hardly enough).

In one point I was not right, measured by wing area and wingspan, she still is the largest airplane by today.

see comparison

Regards
Richard

 

[masalai]

She was still bloody big to be a wooden plane that would (did)

 

[Boston]

given the era in which it was done
and the fact that it was a first
and in wood because the war had limited supplies of metal for experimental projects
and to this day the largest plain that ever flew
I think its hats off to old Howard
man took a drill bit company and turned it into some things we still talk about

cheers
B

 

[aztek]

hi
is this any argument to those of you who believe that WIGs are aeroplanes
http://www.ikarus342000.com/INTRO3.htm
Both pages are interesting
Aztek

 

[daiquiri]

Aztek, virtually every low-wing aircraft is a WIG during takeoffs and landings. The difference is they have not been optimized for that flight regime but for flying up in the skies.

From the site you have cited:
"WIG-crafts are not aircraft's. Specific design criteria's are complete different compared to an aircraft. For example the take off. An aircraft uses a angle of about 14 degree for maximum lift to shorten the take off distance. A WIG-craft has to be started without this facility. To flare with high speed so low over a surface the have to be auto stable. Over the years different types of WIG-crafts where developed to optimize this type of craft."
With all the respect for those guy's work, these arguments have nothing to do with a legal distinction between WIGs and aircraft.

WIGs are a particular type of airplane, if an airplane is a machine entirely sustained by pressure field induced by the airflow around it.
When flying over a water surface WIGs have to obey to maritime traffic rules.
If they take-off from an airfield and then crash in the middle of a desert, the survivors will not call the Coast Guard to come and save them, I guess.
WIG stands for Wing In Ground-effect.
Wing, birds, airplanes. No wing, no WIG.

 

[aztek]

hi
Daquiri i see you feel very strongly on this topic


'If they take-off from an aerofield and then crash in the middle of a desert, the survivors will not call the Coast Guard to come and save them,'

the same could be said of the survivors of any crash in the dessert- but a car is not a WIG, or hover-craft crash.

Aztek
PS: how do you crash a hover-craft?

 

[daiquiri]

Daquiri i see you feel very strongly on this topic

Yep, I'm an aeronautical engineer, try to understand me. These boating guys are trying to steal stuff from my airfield and take to their... port.

'If they take-off from an aerofield and then crash in the middle of a desert, the survivors will not call the Coast Guard to come and save them,'
the same could be said of the survivors of any crash in the dessert- but a car is not a WIG, or hover-craft crash.

Yes, it was just to say that it would be pretty difficult to crash with a boat in the middle of a desert.

PS: how do you crash a hover-craft?

Anything can be done. Just find a sufficiently strong wall or a pillar.

 

[aztek]

hi

Yes, it was just to say that it would be pretty difficult to crash with a boat in the middle of a desert.

not if its on a trailer!
Aztek