Efficient express cruiser/sportfisher

[EStaggs]

So I have been galabanting around the net trying to find exactly what I want without avail. Ive been getting close, so I need some help from the many wise folks here at BD.net.

It all started with the PBB article on this boat:

Bieker boats' Shearwater design:

LOA: 25 ft (7.6 m)
Max Beam: 7’-3” (2.2 m)
Displacement, Max: 4,000# (1,814 kg)
Displacement, Lightship: 2,019# (918 kg)
Engine: Yamaha F60
Fuel Capacity: 34 gal
Max Speed, 1/2 load: 22 knots
Cruising Speed: 13-17 knots
Range at Cruising Speed: 170 nm
Potable Water: 30 gal
Ballast Tank Capacity: 76 gal (652# s.w.)

The LOA is great, the beam is perfect, the capacity is spot on for what I need, its trailerable behind a Toyota Tacoma, and its insanely efficient for her length. Alas, no plans, no way, no how.

The boat will spend 80% of the time on a freshwater inland lake 24 miles long and less than a mile wide. It doesn't get rougher than 2' wind chop, and I need very high fuel efficiency with moderate (20-28kts) top speeds. The other 20% of the time will be sport fishing on the Washington/Oregon coasts, the San Juan islands, and our annual trips to Neah bay for halibut and the Columbia River bar's Buoy 10 salmon fishery (a pretty well known piece of water). She won't be taken out when its bad, but good and moderate weather are to be expected. Combined seas of 8' tends to make us head for port. Lastly, whatever it is, the combined weight including the trailer must be under 5000lbs, as that's the max trailer GVW for my Tacoma.

Off we went in search of those who could bring us closer to the goal of similar performance.

Jacques Mertens put out the DE25 a few years ago (and I built his LB22 last year, a fantastic boat). Id need to do a little cabin mod to make it open, but it isn't as efficient, requiring 90hp to get similar speeds. It also lacks the water ballast tank:

LOA: 24' 11-1/2" 7,61 m
Max. Beam: 8' 4 " 2,54 m
Hull Draft with Skeg: 14" 656 mm
Hull weight: 1750 lbs. 795 kg
Displacement: 2,800 lbs. 1.275 l
PPI at DWL: 600 lbs. 270 kg
Recommended HP 90-200 65-150 Kw
Fuel: 84 gallons 336 Liters
Material: Stitch & Glue composite

Brion Rieff has been really helpful going over his Rieff Runner 24:

LOA: 24' BEAM: 7' 6"
DRAFT: 10" DISP: 2500 lbs.
POWER: 115 SPEED: 35 mph

Again, increased horsepower, but I love the planing pad on the keel. It is spec'd at 3" of total thickness in ply, and shes a 100% wood boat. I hear tell that glued ply lapstrake can have some maintenance hassles (painting, preventing plank edges from cracking or saturating with water), but you can put great shape into them as well. We are developing a cabin as we speak.

Yves-Marie Tanton's hull #230 is the final plan so far. At 25', shes designed in aluminum, but I will probably have it redrawn in cored composite of some sort:

Another delta padded boat with more deadrise than the Rieff boat. This is also designed for a water ballast tank to make her more tolerable in the trolling and slow stuff, while shedding the weight for planing speeds.

Timm Smith of Smith Marine Designs has seemed interested in doing a scratch design as well, but has been under the weather, so no drawings have emerged as of yet.

_________________________

Im very interested to find out the opinions of the masses here, comparing my needs with the above hullforms. I haven't experienced a ride in one of the lifting padded boats yet, so I have no idea how they perform. Id like to think they are going to plane (and semiplane) with less HP. Also they seem like they would tolerate the water ballast system well, draining easily through venturis.

As always, the more designs to influence the decision making process the better, so if I missed something, please let me know. Im sure there are hundreds of designs out there that I missed. Im targeting cored composite for the ease of one-off building. I don't mind wood or foam cores, either way.

Any and all opinions are greatly appreciated, even aesthetic ones.

E

 

[rasorinc]

effecent cruiser

Here is a thought for you. Built like a brick ----house. It is an easy build and you can put any cabin you want on it and it is trailerable. Stan
https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=719 Here is another https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=815

 

[CET]

How about a Tolman? Very efficient and seaworthy, and easy to build as well. Plans are available in book form for next to nothing.

http://www.fishyfish.com/aaron_enstad/index.html

 

[EStaggs]

CET, Ive never seen Aaron's boat in all the times Id been to Fishyfish. Ill have to check it out!

Does anyone have an opinion on the lifting pad on the keel of the two other designs?

I know how the Tolman will perform (a bit more fuel than Id like, but still pretty good economy), which will be a great sea boat, but a bit overkill for the lake we live on. Not a bad idea, Ill add it to the design pile and mess around a bit with numbers.

E

 

[Tad]

The pad will improve lift at lower speed, at the expense of ride in a sea, which may not be a problem with your use. The lack of a chine flat on the Tanton hull seems odd in this day and age. I would absolutely have to have it, approximately 5 degree reverse angle will add a little bit more efficiency with slightly increased lift.

 

[raw]

Slightly smaller at 22'. Composite Build.

 

[EStaggs]

After a great deal of research, it seems as though the Tolman skiff in either the Widebody or Jumbo version seems to fit most of my criteria.

Tad, I agree for many reasons that the absence of chine flats makes little sense on the hull. Especially since I think that particular boat would throw some SERIOUS spray....

Any opinions on Tolman's boats?

E

 

[Tanton]

Chine Flat.

The pad will improve lift at lower speed, at the expense of ride in a sea, which may not be a problem with your use. The lack of a chine flat on the Tanton hull seems odd in this day and age. I would absolutely have to have it, approximately 5 degree reverse angle will add a little bit more efficiency with slightly increased lift.

In this view the chine flat can be seen. It is easier to experiment with an aluminum construction to find the best location for a given purpose.

 

[Tanton]

After a great deal of research, it seems as though the Tolman skiff in either the Widebody or Jumbo version seems to fit most of my criteria.

Tad, I agree for many reasons that the absence of chine flats makes little sense on the hull. Especially since I think that particular boat would throw some SERIOUS spray....

Any opinions on Tolman's boats?

E

The closest to a Tolman Skiff, in a 20' aluminum boat. With modified sheerline and other details.

 

[marshmat]

Tom Lathrop's "Bluejacket" might also be worth looking at, http://bluejacketboats.com/ . He's designed a few, using the same hull form, in lengths from 20 to 28 feet.

I was working on something along similar lines last year, see discussions at http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/projects-proposals/playing-around-10-m-trailer-cruiser-17597.html where several of the forum gurus chipped in with some very insightful advice. That project is on hold for the moment but may be built in future.

The Tanton hull mentioned earlier shares some similarities to Phil Bolger's "Diablo" hull, and I would think it would perform similarly. (The Diablo jumps onto plane at very low speeds, goes like a bat out of hell with minimal power, can turn on a dime at 20 knots, and can carry an insane amount of weight, the downside being that when lightly loaded, it pounds a lot in a seaway.)

 

[EStaggs]

Im looking at the 23' range YMT. I am concerned that your design isn't going to be able to swing the 900lb hull and cabin weight I can get with the Tolman plans.

Mat, Ive been watching that thread like a hawk, and hoped that it would progress past where it is.

E

 

[marshmat]

A stitch-and-glue Tolman doesn't really have a lot of structure, so yes, I would expect it to come out rather on the light side.

Looking at the Tanton design above: in aluminum, it looks like it would be a pretty hefty (but durable) boat; if done in ply or foam-core composite, I see no reason why it would be any heavier than a comparable Tolman skiff. Although, I wouldn't expect the same eat-rocks-for-breakfast durability as the aluminum one.

I've heard that Renn Tolman is working on a Sea Bright skiff done in a similar style to the existing Tolman skiffs, see http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/design/tolman/seabright.html - interesting, although I'm not sure a Sea Bright type can reach the speeds (mid 20 kt range) we're looking at here.

EStaggs, sorry to disappoint you with my slow progress on my own projects. The boating season here is mid-May to mid-September for open craft like mine, and the academic season gets in the way the rest of the time. Right now, what free time there is, is taken up by thesis, final project, and job hunting. So the boats get bumped to the back burner, unfortunately.

 

[EStaggs]

Renn actually completed the boat, but had abysmal 12 kt results. I think he needs to refine his hullform to something closer to Atkin's, rather than just trying to adapt the tunnel stern to his hull. 17-20kts is definitely feasible as evidenced by Robb White, but it is a very special boat to accomplish this.

Here is a link to two vids of it:

http://www.fishyfish.com/renn_tolman/index.html

While I dig on aluminum boats for durability, there is very little Im going to do to the 20+oz of fiberglass sheathing on the hull exterior that would require the extra 30-40% weight penalty. I am really seeking out seaworthy in moderate conditions with livable (4-6nmpg) fuel economy.

I haven't really found a downside to the Tolman boats as of yet. It has seemingly been producing numbers competitive with every other design, with a strong reputation offshore.

E

 

[FAST FRED]

Renn actually completed the boat, but had abysmal 12 kt results. I think he needs to refine his hullform to something closer to Atkin's, rather than just trying to adapt the tunnel stern to his hull.

The Atkin boats seemed to excell at SL-3 or less.

With a 16 ? ft lwl about 12K is in the ballpark.

Will be interesting to watch if he gets the performance up to plaining boat (Over SL 3) standards , before he sells plans.

Or if he simply marinizes a 10 hp and accepts fanatastic fuel mileage.

With the low cost of gasoline , and the hulls preference for a small diameter prop at higher speeds a lawn tractor air cooled ( 12hp Honda?) might fill the bill. Electric start , no shift , no reverse ,no freezing or antifreez but light and cheap (and QUIET!) to run.With a prop designed for high speeds , a hand can hold the boats thrust at idle.

FF

 

[EStaggs]

He already has plans available, but isn't giving it a glowing report of excellence.

12kts was running the nuts off his 20hp engine, so I don't think the efficiencies are as stunning as one would hope. He was hoping for the magical 18kt cruise on a cup of diesel an hour, but I think hes gonna have to get narrower and lighter.

Mr Lathrop was kind enough to send me an email pertaining to this quest for a boat, however, so Im going to spin the bluejacket idea around a bit.

E