Efficient cargo ships

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Spartan, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Spartan
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Location: Underwater

    Spartan Junior Member

    Solar powered ships are the fantasy of the sky fallers and don't make any sense. At current technology, they can only provide less then 1% of a cargo ships energy needs and even if we can use some alien technology along with unicorn poop, at most, we will get 5% from 100% efficient solar panels.

    So solar is out.

    I maintained that wind energy using conventional, tried and proven sails, with modern hydraulic and electronic controls can provide a significant savings. Nice big claim, but I never had any numbers to back it up.

    .
    Sooo......I need help.

    Here is the hypothetical ship....

    A small bulk shipper. 20 meters by 120 meters. 10,000 tons dw. Flat deck.

    So we don't complicate things too much, we will only mount one sail on the bow, with a 20 meter mast. Or 30 meter? How much energy/power will sails generate? How much of it is usable in forward motion? How usable if the ship has to have a minimum of 10 knots speed to be commercially feasible? In other words, the sail must be able to help maintain the ship at 10 knots or MORE.

    Any takers?



    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    BTW.....I have tons of real wind data from actual wind turbines and sites BUT it's useless because wind turbines can turn to the wind to harness it. Ships can't. Because of that, this discussion can get a lot more complicated when we start looking at energy levels based on wind directions.

    Here are energy hours.....in other words, how fast is the wind on how many hours a year. The first number is meters per second. The second, how many hours a year.


    1 371.97
    2 696.98
    3 937.80
    4 1073.91
    5 1103.86
    6 1042.92
    7 917.21
    8 756.58
    9 588.19
    10 432.42
    11 301.34
    12 199.39
    13 125.45
    14 75.12
    15 42.85
    16 23.30
    17 12.08
    18 5.98
    19 2.82
    20 1.27
    21 0.55
    22 0.23
    23 0.09
    24 0.03
    25 0.01

    I can also provide an accurate wind rose (pie graph of wind direction).
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    You could burn unicorn poop to make steam ;)
    Wind power limits the possible economical routes to the usual commercial routes. Also, the unreliability of propulsion means that deliveries can't be guaranteed, which means the freight needs to be cheaper. Overall, fossil fuels are too cheap to make other means of propulsion viable.
     
  3. Spartan
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Spartan Junior Member

    Don't underestimate unicorn poo!

    I'm aware of the limitations. What I want to do is put some numbers on it. I read some publication that claimed up to 60% powered by wind. I call that bs commercials applications. BUT.....I think that it could cover a much larger number then solar.

    From an engineering perspective. I'm interested in efficiency....and had nothing to do with falling skies.
     
  4. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Take the weight of the Oracle boat and speed and compare that to your supper tanker.

    Since it has a significant sail area, you should be able to do decent comparisons.

    But, you will need a lot of sail area to move a cargo vessel. It is feasible for sail assisted, I think there are some companies doing this already ....
     
  5. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    You can only use wind power when the wind blows. I don't think the power house of China would appreciate delivery times of its Billion dollar market dictated by windy days.

    The untimely arrival at ports that time arrival to minutes would cause mayhem.

    Then when you consider frozen products in reefers it gets very silly.
     
  6. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

  7. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    We done sailing ships already,-- 100 years ago.
     
  8. Spartan
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Spartan Junior Member

    Guys....I am not advocating wind powered ships. Simply wind assisted ships.

    I have this image of a fully automated sail deploying when the wind conditions are right. Then repacking themselves when it's not.

    If a small ship is using 10 tons a day, $6500 of bunker. Then a 20% reduction in fuel use, it means $400k a year. Forget about carbon sky falling, it's about money.

    I don't know if that is real. I can't calculate it's feasibility. That's why I'm asking.
     
  9. Spartan
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Spartan Junior Member

    The Oracle boat I found is a lightweight sail boat. And a crashing one at that. Not really applicable.
     
  10. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Ok --so its wind assisted and one day its not blowing so crank up the engine --but wait the ship was not fitted with a full size engine because its wind assisted, so its late arrival --not good infact very bad.

    So you build a ship with full size engine and full size sails,-- where is the saving.

    There might be savings some days but thats not enough.
     
  11. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

  12. Spartan
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Location: Underwater

    Spartan Junior Member

    Well, no. You run at 10 knots to meet delivery and when you have favorable wind conditions, the system self deploys. With variable pitch propellers, we cut back diesel power and use whatever wind power we have.

    It cost several million for a small ship. If another million saves $400k then it makes sense.

    Are the wind numbers there?
     
  13. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Oracle:

    18 tons, a wing the size of a jet airliner, that should give you the ENERGY available component.

    AND my team wins, a lot.
     
  14. Spartan
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Location: Underwater

    Spartan Junior Member

    Given the video I have seen on it, I don't see that as easily self deploying but.....it cost me nothing to tract down the company and ask them.

    I will even invite them here.
     

  15. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

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