Eco Boat Show

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by bad dog, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. bad dog
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Broken Bay, Australia

    bad dog bad dog

    Is this a world first? I'm pretty sure it's Australia's first:

    Eco Boat Show - Sunday November 18 at Bayview Anchorage, Pittwater. There's no entry fee - it's just a display from enthusiastic individuals and businesses of stuff that you can use right now to make boating more enjoyable and sustainable.

    All sorts of goodies on display like:
    - transom mounted Watt&Sea hydrognerator:
    http://www.ynovex.com/hydro/

    - Efoy fuel cell generator:
    http://www.ynovex.com/fuel_cell/

    - Solbianflex lightweight flexible solar panels:
    http://www.ecoboats.com.au/productrange_solbianflex.php

    - Torqueedo electric outboards:
    http://www.ecoboats.com.au/productrange_torqeedo.php

    - Mastervolt/Bellmann electric inboards:
    http://www.ecoboats.com.au/productrange_bellmann.php

    Some great boats too, like:
    - Mothership Marine's new uber-houseboat:
    http://mothershipmarine.com.au/introduction/

    - Greenline 33 solar hybrid - not strictly a multihull, but very smooth nonetheless:
    http://www.eyachts.com.au/motor_yachts_16.php

    - Moondog the solar cat utility boat - very multihull, if not so smooth as the Greenline:
    http://www.envirotecture.com.au/abo...-power-really-is-the-answer-moondog-proves-it
    http://soulstream1.sptel.com.au/NBN_News/coffsenergyfestival270712.wmv
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Very interesting, thanks for the link. :)

    I have noticed that on the Mastervolt/Bellmann's web page they have, once again, put that old marketing nonsense:
    "Generally electric propulsion is most suitable for displacement style craft such as yachts or classic boats. In such vessels, as a rule of thumb, 1kW of electric power gives the performance equivalent of 3HP diesel/petrol power. In other words, a 4kW electric motor will replace a 12HP diesel inboard."​

    Actually, at least they have somewhat lowered the expectations - the usual "wisdom" wanted it to be something like 1 electric HP = 4 diesel HP's. We're making a slow progress, but evidently some things and convictions are still hard to die. :rolleyes:
     
  3. bad dog
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Broken Bay, Australia

    bad dog bad dog

    Yeah power conversion is a simple matter, but torque is a bit more complicated. The beauty of electric motors is that 100% of the torque is available from zero RPM, but that makes some assumptions about prop dia/pitch being correct too.

    Anyway, I'm not saying it's worth flying out from Italy for the show ;) but if you happen to be passing... :D
     
  4. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Yes, I know. But the power remain power, and that's what makes the boat move at a given speed. You might check this post on that regard, with a graphical example: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/tko-electric-solar-concept-43940-4.html#post568467 .
    I wrote that one because people repeatedly claimed (encouraged by the kind of hype seen in that Mastervolt/Bellmann's advertisement) they could replace, say, a 48 HP diesel with a 12 HP electric motor and get the same max speed. Which they obviously can't, unless the original diesel engine was heavily oversized.

    Well, visiting Australia is one of things to do in my lifetime agenda, so perhaps there will be some other boat show around when it happens. ;)

    Cheers
     
  5. patbout
    Joined: Oct 2012
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    Location: Sydney, Australia

    patbout New Member

    Looking forward to the show.
     
  6. bad dog
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Broken Bay, Australia

    bad dog bad dog

    Absolutely true. Can't say I've ever seen that claim, by a manufacturer or anybody else, but it's clearly wrong. The main reason owners are swapping from diesel to electric is the compactness of the motor, and of course the quietness and smoothness. Thanks for your link.
     
  7. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    I have, unfortunately. Just take a look at the links in that post of mine, with few examples taken from magazines and websites. My guess is that it could be due to the fact that people sometimes do not understand the difference between torque and power.
    Cheers
     
  8. bad dog
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Broken Bay, Australia

    bad dog bad dog

    I found this in one of those links:
    "These motors are configured to match current combustion engine-driven hull speeds and produce the same or more power than higher-horsepower fossil fuel engines, because they have almost negligible parasitic power loss in comparison."

    Another article (http://www.catamarans.com/catco/electricWheel/faq.htm#motoringtime) lists the 'parasitic' power losses from water pump/s, transmission, alternator, and other auxiliary gear being up to 40%, under which loads the motor is still expected to propel the vessel at full speed.

    This is probabvly what was meant. I can't comment on the quantum of the losses, but it is true in principle. But I guess it really means that if a boat was using the main engine to run all that ancillary equipment then that should be counted as additional to the basic motive power demand. So 1 HP/k = 1 HP/kW, as you say.
     
  9. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    If you attend the show ask about marine quality LOW SOLAR ABSORBTION PAINT. LSA

    I understand that the big paint companies are working on it.

    House services...air con and whatnot to offset the effects of sunlight are major power consumers on modern yachts
     
  10. bad dog
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Broken Bay, Australia

    bad dog bad dog

    There's some on the market for buildings, most from smaller manufacturers, but a few majors have it.
    If there's anything in a marine quality I'll try to find it.
     
  11. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    An eco friendly boat.

    That's kinda like an environmentally friendly car... not going to happen.

    Although, you are going to get much closer with a boat.

    Like a dugout sailboat built by hand.

    Kinda like a wooden bicycle.

    Slowly we're comin around, bit by bit.

    Good thread, thanks.
     
  12. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    since the vast majority of boats are for recreation, the most "eco friendly" boat is none at all. the idea of an eco-friendly is silly, why not just out law every non-life supporting activity? They can all move the people's paradise of N. Korea or Cuba, where everything is, including private boats, are out lawed.

    How about row boats, kayaks and motorless sailboats made from recycled plastic?
     
  13. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    An Eco friendly boat would be one that could easily be recycled or disposed of when its service life is over. A wooden boat will simply turn to dust , plastic is troublesome. What will happen to the millions of plastic boats >

    Was this an issue at the ECO boatshow
     
  14. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Those "Greenline" vessels-IIRC they can do about 15 miles on electric power before turning on the diesels. You may use 3-4 gallons of diesel in the same trip with your same sized diesel boat.
    Wonder how many times around the world you'd need to go to pay off all that tech.

    The Greenline 70,they say it has a range of 2000 miles,and I looked on their site and tankage is 7000 litres so that's about 1900 gallons so about 1 mpg. But they don't say at what speed,and it has 2x800 hp engines.

    Only way I can think to be green-ish is to use waste veg oil.
     

  15. Munter
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    Location: Australia

    Munter Amateur

    To me, "eco" doesn't have to mean zero impact. I think the term just implies an improved environmental outcome compared to the status quo. I think its worth pursuing reduced impact as I recognise that virtually all my activities will have some kind of environmental impact.

    If I were after zero impact I guess I would just have to bury myself in a box underground and stay there for eternity and that doesn't appeal to me at all!
     
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