Easyway out

Discussion in 'Stability' started by evantica, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    A Dashew Sundeer, for one. Very light, very fast, and those lucky enough to have sailed on one of the handful of examples out there are invariably impressed with its comfort and safety in serious bad weather.
    While few mariners will dispute the value of such safety gear as EPIRBs, VHF radio, etc., virtually all of them- commercial and recreational alike- will likely agree that relying on electronics is not a substitute for seamanship and situational awareness. The seamanship, knowledge and skill MUST come first; the electronics then serve only to provide additional information and communication capabilities to the skipper.

    Commercial passenger ships, worldwide, currently have the best safety record of any mode of transportation ever devised by humans (followed by trains and commercial aircraft, cars being quite far down the list). For pleasure craft, the USCG keeps excellent statistics ( http://www.uscgboating.org/statistics/accident_statistics.aspx ) - you'll note that seven of the top eight contributing factors are various forms of inattention, inexperience and/or sheer stupidity. Even so, the accident rates among pleasure craft are remarkably low.


    As with anything you find on the Internet, you may interpret what you find on this forum as you choose. You will, however, find the information much more useful if you interpret it as the author of the post wrote it.
     
  2. evantica
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    evantica Senior Member

    I Agree the Dashews boat is perfect in any aspect (I have som dvd's) I think it's an exeption though. Not many with that prestanda, my guess!?
    "the accident rates among pleasure craft are remarkably low" guess this is true, but back then there where not many "Pleasure cruz" so...
    What I meant was that Epirb and so.. is the only thing (?!) why people are found nower days= the same or even mrore accidents today, coz' off lack off skills, worse boats= lighter and money saving plastic! That's my point (among other) If "You" look at the "evolution" in boatdesigning/ talking safty and not speed! (I mention Livfesaving, coz' many/some where using this as an argument) Then it's going backward I think. In the -70ties a bit better, today catastrofic! And some thinking I am a bit sceptic and even foolish?! Who's Who? And be true now please. (Now this is a interesting debatt)
     
  3. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Manie B Senior Member

    Light boats are the future

    http://www.alessandrodibenedetto.net/

    21 ft = 6.5 m very light and relatively fast (fast enough)

    We had this discussion last weekend at the "Around the Island" race as well
    Many chaps have got this thing about steel boats and you will never convince then, so dont waste your time.
    Fact is that if a heavy boat really was the answer you would see many more on the water. Heavy slow full keel boats are a dying breed of the "old school"

    The new modern SAFE MONO is flat, triangular, fast, centre board, bulb keel, twin rudders at 15 deg, tiller,

    and unsinkable

    no way of getting past that
    no matter how you throw your toys out the cot

    if you are building an old design that is heavy and slow - be happy - and build with love - and enjoy your boat :D
     
  4. evantica
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    evantica Senior Member

    Manie B = mr wise! "Fact is that if a heavy boat really was the answer you would see many more on the water" oh so true, can't argu with that!
    And I will be a bit more "sympatic"! I have a negative side, I get easy "over the head" stupid me!!! just human nature (and a bit of the redheaded hot temper..he..he) from now on I will slow down...Fair winds and calm seas
    Cpt. Hakan in Swe
     
  5. evantica
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    evantica Senior Member

    AN ddid like "if you are building an old design that is heavy and slow - be happy - and build with love - and enjoy your boat" Yes I will & Thanks
     
  6. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    EPIRB's don't save everybody, but make it easier to find the bodies.
     
  7. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Since you are building a steel boat I will mention two designers that design light to medium displacement boats in steel that are light years removed from the old Colin Archer type of boats. They are v/d Statd and Dudley Dix (and myself, but not ethical to blow my own whistle).
    These boats sail beautifully and with decent designed hulls and fin keels will point high in the wind. And they go like clappers.
    Probably the best steel designer once told me at my yard that steel boats do not need thick hull plating for strength, hull plating should only keep water out of the boat....brilliant, work it out yourself.

    As for your storm argument; I would rather spend less time in a gale with a boat that have a bit more "movement" and rides over waves well, than spending a lot of time in that storm on a slow boat that albeit have better "motion" due its massive displacement but plunging through wave with water all over deck ....
    Have you ever spent time in a gale /storm - I have spent seven days on end in a low pressure system with lot of storms on the South African notorious east coast. Not a lot of fun - you just want out of it.

    Lastly, everything evolved and get better, just look around you for instance;
    1. Television - compare models 10 years apart from the first to the latest LCD/LED high definition.
    2. Planes - same argument from the first to the latest Airbus 380
    3. Cars - how they evolved - some little 1300cc cars today will outrun most V8's of the 60's and 70's and do so in total comfort and style with no fuzz.
    And the list can go on with everything you see and touch, even the computer these words were written on:cool:

    Even boats were and still are on the evolution road and that is not a bad thing either.

    In all, there is nothing wrong being nostalgic and try to capture the spirit of yesteryear, but bear in mind that the future is better than the past. Have you noticed that even women evolved considerably over the last 50 years?
    Ladies today are stunning and looks much better in age than the models of years gone by;)
     
  8. evantica
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    evantica Senior Member

    Wynand! Yes, you have a good point in everything you say.
    (Dudley dix/ Wayland I don't know about!) Van D/S boats I have looked into these for years, and also like this design I was once into building the "Seal" model. But I don't want to call it "leightweightboats" and acually not any boats made in Steel. I was talking more of plastic, economical thinhulled, fin keeled kind of boats (thougt you did too!)
    The bluewater boats (?!) I have read and seen alot!!! Thats way I'm fancy Longkeeled heavy boats... Windvane steered and nice movment! If sea state to much/ horrible(?!) lay a para-anchor is my kind of solution and let the storm pass over your head! But this filosofi is as devided as the speak of cars... I like Ford and you like Skoda, Fin keeled/ Long keeled.
    And everything wasn't better "then", hardly anything I would say- exept the boats! Yes I'm nostalgic And love those ol' wooden Archers, some newer Falmouth cutters, The "Flicka 20" Is one of my favorit (or any Pacific sea craft) Lyn And Larry Pardy's filosofi and so on...opps all most forgott: No I havn't been into a sevre storm outside S. Africa. And hope I won't in the future!!! heard It can be horrible out there, somthing about "Southerly against the current, Aguhlla? Keep it up and thanks for your saying in the subject!
     
  9. evantica
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    evantica Senior Member

    "Have you noticed that even women evolved considerably over the last 50 years?Ladies today are stunning and looks much better in age than the models of years gone by
    __________________ Happely married to one of those of "later models" ...ha...ha.
     
  10. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    evantica.. If you are really serious about your project and the way you are building it you got to do the math pretty much yourself. Nobody will do that for you (no fence against the way you choosen) So... to give you some help I make you an offer. Take a few weeks of and come here with your ideas and plans so I can give you some help with basic calculations and you can read some of the best books in the art of boatdesign and make some notes (and eventually will order your own copies)...

    BR Teddy
     
  11. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    methinks you must qualify
    "the best steel designer" well Wyn we have talked this before and really it means"the best I know of"
    there are a lot of very good designers, who are not NA but more talented and a lot of very bad ones and an awful lot in betwixt?
    i dunno if Skip D is a NA but his designs make sense. Farr was an engineer, look what he did and so on
    When it comes to it, it IMO is what pleases the eye, what performs
    When it comes to things that float , a man /boy may just create something great, he may not be "qualified" in sense of that word, but may produce something greater than the person with more letters than the alphabet behind his name?
     
  12. evantica
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    evantica Senior Member

    TeddyDiver. A real nice offer and appriciate it! And I do take serious on my project. And will in time get her around the "Horn"... That's the plan, belive it or not! I have allready consulted a boat designer how WILL do the "Math" for me, And will come to my place as soon the snow is melted (tommorow I hope/but not likely) About the book you mentioned, can you develope this a bit more please coz' it interest me a lot. Do you have some kind of "courses" in the boatdesign? let me know, coz' I'm interested...
    WOSSH: Oh so true! Glad you mentioned it!
     
  13. evantica
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    evantica Senior Member

    Here's a Swedish famous boat design (My former boat actually, and the same drawings I will trade for something funny!) I use the same principle while I build my hull/ upside down! Yes I'm aware of the "math" is done on this boatdesign! just wanne share it with you!
     

    Attached Files:

  14. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Books, some of them actually..

    For basic consideration:
    D Gerr: The Nature of Boats
    John Vigor: The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat
    C A Marchaj: Seaworthiness The Forgotten Factor

    Design process:
    John Teale: How To Design a Boat
    Ted Brewer: Understanding Boat Design
    Norman L Skene: Elements of Yach Design
    Larsson & Eliasson: Principles of Yacht Design

    Scantlings
    D Gerr: Elements of Boat Strength

    Interior
    Lisa C Hix: Interior Design Methods for Yacht Design and..


    Nigel Calder: Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual
    same author: Marine Diesel Engines
    D Gerr : Boat Mechanical System Handbook
    same author : Propeller Handbook

    Then there's more about sails and rigging, the actual building process etc
    :D Chears Teddy
     

  15. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    survive the savage sea, dougal robertson
    heavy weather sailing, adlard coles
    history of seamanship, douglas philips-birt
    seamanship, harland
    once is enough,miles smeeton
     
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