Dux Diamonds

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by catsketcher, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. catsketcher
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    Hello all

    My little 23ft folder is getting a little closer. I really have to work out how much Dux to use on the rig. I have been trawling the net and gone back and forth on the use of Dux for standing rigging.

    I am interested in anyone who has used Dux for diamonds. I really am trying to get the weight of the rig down as much as possible. It am not that worried about windage. As the boat is trailerable I would like the mast to be as easy as possible to raise.

    Has anyone used Dux for diamonds on the multi? I know there are some boats about that have done it and would like a few comments before I use it for anything but the caps and forestay.

    As for the forestay - I am going soft hanks and no furler. Much as I would like a furler I am not sure I can get a screecher furler to work well for a jib. Happy to be recommended otherwise.

    cheers

    Phil
     
  2. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Phil,
    At Cruisers and Sailing forums in multihulls there is a thread on Searunner trimarans, in that thread is a guy who re-rigged a Searunner in all Dux, he might have some info.

    http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/index51.html

    And here's a link from within the conversation, it's a 100 page thread so maybe just search the site using "dux" or "Dyneema"

    http://www.briontoss.com/spartalk/forumdisplay.php?f=1&pp=20&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=365

    Look for the posters Jmolan and Mark Johnston.

    My understanding of what i've read is that synthetics on aluminium masts don't work as well as on carbon masts because the shrinking co-efficients are different, that is in the cold an aluminium mast will shrink slackening the rigging but a carbon mast won't.
    Cheers,
    R.
     
  3. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

  4. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Hey Phil, I use amsteel running backstays with a wood mast and found the expansion rates compatible. I thought the aluminum mast thoughts interesting but would check sources besides CF as many postings fall into the opinionated rather than objective catagory.
     
  5. paxfish
    Joined: Dec 2014
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    paxfish Junior Member

    Hey Cat - The previous owner installed DUX diamonds on my wooden mast. After four years they seem to be holding up great.

    This is a 43 foot rotating mast.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. catsketcher
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    Thanks people for all the feedback.

    Great photo Pax. It looks to me like that has been sized for creep which seems to be what I must do to avoid problems.

    I will go get some Dux

    cheers

    Phil
     
  7. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    rob denney Senior Member

    Phil,
    Have a chat with Mike at Strong Rigging. Not much about Dux that he doesn't know.

    Any reason for not going with the 6 stays and wishbone boom set up from your big boat?
     
  8. catsketcher
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    Cheers about Mike Strong. As to the rig - I would love to go spreaderless but I don't have a good spot for the inner forestay. I still could go that way and use lowers made of alloy (or carbon) tube that handle compression as well as tension. The platform is really stiff and could probably handle it.

    Wishbones are fab for high load cats like my 38 footer but when weaving around moorings it is nice to have a high twist arrangement, far less digital or full on full off that I have to do with the wishbone. If I pull the wishbone on halfway only the aft edge of the main fills and moves the CE aft. The prototype handled beautifully with lots of twist when moving slowly through moorings etc.

    Wishbones are great for bigger boats when the loads increase.

    cheers

    Phil
     
  9. paxfish
    Joined: Dec 2014
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    paxfish Junior Member

    catsketcher - with regard to soft hanks, i am using them also. On balance I like them. Be advised, they take longer to hank/unhank than pistons, but they are much easier on the DUX.

    I built 13 of them and they took about 30 minutes each. A real PITA and I hope I don't lose any!

    I used this site and 3mm amsteel... http://l-36.com/soft_shackles.php?menu=4 Be sure to include the little release line....
     
  10. catsketcher
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    Thanks Pax
     
  11. rob denney
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    rob denney Senior Member

    Do you really need an inner forestay for a 23'ter?
    Maybe if you deep reef the main, but in that case, you will only have a small, or no jib so a temporary forestay could be arranged to the base of the forestay. Diamonds on trailerable boats are a pain in the butt.
     
  12. tspeer
    Joined: Feb 2002
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    tspeer Senior Member

    I have Dux for my cap shrouds and lowers, but wire for my diamonds, so I don't have any Dux diamond experience to contribute. But there was a LOT of stretch in my cap shrouds as the Dux settled in. Dux may be OK for diamonds once it has been fully stretched, but what about before then?

    If you do use Dux for the diamonds, I think it would be a good idea to not go sailing for a while and just work on getting the diamonds stretched out. I'm not sure how you'd do that without applying sailing loads, but I'd be worried that the diamonds would initially allow too much bending.

    We tightened the cap shrouds by taking up the slack in the leeward shroud when sailing, and then doing the same thing on the opposite tack. Then doing it again as we sailed in more wind or as the Dux crept while moored in between sailing sessions. You can get away with that in the cap shrouds because it just means the mast leans a little under load. But the risk from bending is a lot higher.
     
  13. rogerf
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    rogerf Junior Member

    Is it the Dux that needs stretching or the splices?
     
  14. paxfish
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    paxfish Junior Member

    It might be the latter since DUX is supposed to have much of the stretch worked out of it while being heated during the manufacturing process.

    I don't know how much stretch there was when the builder built my diamonds 4 or 5 years ago. I do know they have not needed adjustment for the last 9 months....
     

  15. waynemarlow
    Joined: Nov 2006
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    waynemarlow Senior Member

    From experiance in running Marlow Sk78 on an F16, the stretch can be a real pain and it never really settled out, with my patience in tightening everything everytime I sailed finally wearing thin and I returned to wire. It is never the less a great product and I tend to use it evvery where I can including now pretty much all soft shackles.

    I notice Marlow now have a prestretched Sk98 and a super stretched SK99, any body had any experiance in these as they mention diamonds in there application notes ?
     
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