Dutch Barge Power requirement

Discussion in 'Hydrodynamics and Aerodynamics' started by Mathilde, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. Mathilde
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: France

    Mathilde New Member

    Dear All
    I recently bought a 1920 Dutch Barge in France. It needs a complete refit including the entire propulsion system. When finished it will displace approximately 70-100 tonnes, its hull length is 28 metres with a 5 metre beam and a blunt bow. I need to achieve a max speed of ~7 knots to pass a Rhine certificate but it will normally need to cruise around 3-5 knots. It will be limited to cruising the inland canals and rivers of Europe. I need advise on propellor size/design and engine power torque required to both achieve the max speed but also have easy cruising. I was thinking of a hybrid system. Expert opinions would be greatly appreciated.
    By the way my name is Matthew, the Barge is named Mathilde!
     
  2. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 6,106
    Likes: 355, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Welcome Matthew,

    You're going to need to provide far more info than you currently have. To estimate the power requirements is the "easy" part...that would be around 70kW. But the rest depends upon so may other factors, which can be provided with a GA and a rough lines of the stern and where you wish to location the prop etc.

    Hybrid system adds even more complication dependent upon even more data, which you not provided. It influences the efficiencies and when the power is delivered and at what rpms etc..

    So, stick to basics first, the estimated power would be in the realm of 70kW (but without seeing a GA is just a guide). Then see if this fits your size/budget/tastes/whims etc..and go from there.

    Baby steps first!
     
  3. Mathilde
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: France

    Mathilde New Member

    Dear Ad Hoc
    thank you for the very prompt reply. First baby step is fine. I was advised by an experienced barge captain ~120hp would be sufficient so that ties in. I was thinking of a DAF / Deuetz diesel as the main engine. Then the reason I was thinking an electric addition is as follows
    1) it currently has a prehistoric ~30HP Industralie 2 stroke slow speed engine in it and it cruised in pre purchase trials very happily at canal speeds. So thats all I need for canal cruising
    2) I need more power to get up to 13 km/hr which is the min speed I need to pass a Rhine certification
    3) I was concerned that regular use of a main engine at idle speed (all I would need to cruise) would end up glazing bores and be generally inefficient
    4) I like the idea of silent cruising on occasion
    I fully understand however on big tidal rivers then its a different matter so the original engine and gear box will go for something more modern.
    Can you advise what other information I will need to get a better idea of engine prop requirements. Sorry dont know what GA stands for. Just for fun I tried an online prop calculator and it helpfully said I needed a 41" prop! Hmm
     
  4. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 6,106
    Likes: 355, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    GA stands for General Arrangement. Here is one GA iteration i did several years ago for a client, as info.

    typical GA.jpg

    What it needs is to show the location of the engines/shaft line, and then a Lines Plan, showing the shape of the hull, especially aft, where the prop is located, to see how the flow of water is to the prop.

    Your prop is best suited to ensure you get your top speed, then see what power is available, from whatever method you prefer to cruise at, and see what speed you'll get with that power using the prop which has been selected for the higher speed; since the efficiencies will be different.

    Thus, if you also have a resistance curve for the boat, would be nice to confirm.
     
  5. Mathilde
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: France

    Mathilde New Member

    Many thanks. I have some basic dimensions and profiles of the hull , I will put them into a drawing and post shortly. perhaps that will be of some use
    Matthew
     
  6. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    I would look carefully at ALL the engine graphs that most engine MFG post with their engines.

    There is usually a very high output graph , that can only be used for very limited time.

    I would try to match that limited output rating to the high speed requirement for power.

    You can then pass the speed test , and have far less worries about underloading in normal cruise.

    One of the Fiat Ivecio units would look good for this.

    The choice would depend on parts in your area.

    I would first get the dimensions of the existing prop, and shaft , to see weather they are able to handle the power required for the high speed demonstration, or if they too need replacing.

    A CPP ( Controlible Pitch Prop) would be first choice if all the stern gear needs replacing.

    It will help load the engine and give better life and fuel burn at Slo cruise.

    FF
     
  7. Mathilde
    Joined: Nov 2011
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: France

    Mathilde New Member

    Many thanks Fast Freddie. Good points
     

  8. 575
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 1
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Poland

    575 New Member

    Barge design

    Dear Sir,
    I'm looking for someone who can make General Arrangement and Technical Specification for the barge 70'x12'.
    May you please contact me via my e-mail?
    Best regards.

     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.