Dugout canoe with a more modern design?

[Lost Caddo]

An Outrigger designed to be easily removed and /or folded in might be a consideration? It makes it easier to transport such a long distance in the folding /detached position. No need to cut it off, if rules don't allow an Outrigger. Allows the option to deploy in wind / rough water conditions for better stability, or fold in for better speed when the water is smooth? Assuming the rules allow it, of course.

I think about the only rule concerning an outrigger would be....if you are going to use one, you would need to start the race with it. You can't add it later. You could however, remove it during the race...just couldn't put it back on.

 

[Lost Caddo]

I was looking at boats in the garage and I think instead of cloning a Minn IV, it would be easier to copy the hull design of a Passat G3 Kayak. The hulls line look easier to replicate. I'm thinking of taller straight sides with virtually no tumble-home and maybe adding a foot or two of overall length. And an outrigger. Dimensions of the G3 are 22' long and only 26" wide. It weighs 90 lbs. Back in July we loaded it with 10 days of food for two people, tent and camping supplies, 1st aid kit, sat phone, bear spray, clothes and weather gear. We filtered water so we didn't have to carry 10 days worth but we started each day with 14 liters in the boat. It never felt tippy except one large rapid but we stayed upright. It won't be a 4-man boat boat but the shape seems easier to get to and it would be lots easier to find a 30" diameter log vs a 40" diameter log. I'm traveling but when I get home I'll try to get the estimated cu. ft. of wood for something like this and then compare the weight with the G3.

 

[Skip Johnson]

I would think that the first order of business would be to find a log, the dimensions of the log will have considerable affect (effect?) on the design and the number of paddlers. I suspect it will hard to find a four person log.

Just now saw you last post, if you tell me the length, depth (draft and freeboard) and beam of a proposed hull I can tell you the total square footage of the hull to within +/- 15% easily enough. Simple math will then get your estimated cubic feet of hopefully lightweight wood with no tendency to warp or split.

 

[portacruise]

How about a catamaran dugout, which could be more easily sourced for logs, and hold four people, Plus would be more stable and easier to transport?

Discovering the Young Canoe Scientist on the Suncoast https://www.mysuncoast.com/2025/01/22/discovering-young-canoe-scientist-suncoast/

Lewis and Clark apparently built a good number of their canoes from Cottonwood trees.

 

[gonzo]

For a race speed is crucial. Stability depends largely on the skill of the crew, so it is not as critical. Rowing shells are very tippy, but are what wins races.

 

[portacruise]

To win the MR340 doesn't appear to require speed, any Finish under 100 hours would be a record, as I understand it? But, Maybe a successful finish even over 100 hours would draw more attention and competition for Speed? If that time limit proves to be near impossible, should it be lengthened? Or go to a six-man catamaran Maybe?

One thing I always wondered about is why there isn't any competitive kayak/HPB races that run towards an upriver goal, AFAIK? For example the Texas Water Safari billed as one of the toughest races, would actually be much tougher if run in the opposite direction! Seems to me that running counter current and where Portage around boulders and crawling around small waterfalls (to waters above), might be an attraction for bragging rights by the toughest of the tough? More effort required compared to sitting, paddling, and balance when no propulsion being supplied by tail waters. That might spur development of more interesting innovative designs, compared to what is already known. Anyway, that's the type of exploring I like to do in my one man boats, at various places throughout the USA... Thanks for reading, and of course it's not for everyone!

 

[Howlandwoodworks]

Lost Coddo,
Missouri/Missour-uh River or ouemessourita," which means "people of the big canoes".
Otoe-Missouria tribe was forced to sell their land and relocate to a reservation in Red Rock, Oklahoma, in 1881.
Have you done researching into how the native Americans made their canoes. I’d be curious to want you found out in your research.
CNC Machine would take forever and a day. Unless it were over size and the sound of that would be deafening.
I visited Churchill Clark (Yes, Clark of Merriweather Clark) one day at Cooper’s Landing and helped him for about a half hour with his adz and got out about a board foot of wood of his dugout canoe that he built there. I am highly skilled with hand tools so the amount you might get out would very with different skill levels,.
An adz is not a sharp tool. It Does not cut like you might think not like an axe cutting but more like it breaks out a 1/4” thick potato chip size chunk of wood with each hit/swing.
A adz works best on Cottonwood or Popular wood because those wood species has an interlacing wood grain that is less prone to checking and cracking.

Q&A: Churchill Clark talks dugout canoes, Cooper's Landing https://www.voxmagazine.com/news/q-a-churchill-clark-talks-dugout-canoes-coopers-landing/article_3bbde178-6bf8-57b5-ad47-fac2094f1d94.html

The Missour-uh River will make you feel small.

This is one of my favorite places to sail in my small 1954 wooden Jet 14” for over three decades.
She’s peaceful in the photo above, but when she rises another 20 feet you would not want to reckon with her.

 

[Howlandwoodworks]

There was a short lived electrical boat MR340 but no one ever made it to the finish in the time allotted.
I always thought there should be a Sailboat MR340. But I have never seen another sailboat on the river here.

 

[Dave G 9N]

I posted this earlier > " I have until the Jan 1. registration to see if I can come up with a dugout plan but if not I'll do the race solo in a Stellar kayak with a goal of 48 hours. The race is the end of July so I would have about 6 mos to build." Sea trial could be as simple as one day on the nearby Red River. It has some current so it would be possible to gauge the current then see how much effort is required to go faster than the current.

Jan 1 registration? So this is a day late and a dollar short. But the website says "Registration is open until Friday, July 24, 2026". Fills up fast?

A Louisiana boy looking for a design for a light, fast design for a dugout and didn't find a good pirogue? You might want to look up Nick Lamoine, builder of a cypress pirogue in Louisiana. The boat is a lot smaller, but the scantlings are a lot lighter than you had been thinking. There is a more complicated lightweight dugout from Finland, but the rules committee might need some convincing. If I was thinking of four guys in a 20' boat with heavier construction than the Wenonah, I would consider a St. Laurence skiff, peapod, Salish canoe, or freight canoe.

You might also look at the dugout canoes from Hawaii with 'plank' thickness around 5/8". I met the builders of the koa wood dugout canoe for the Smithsonian around 20 years ago at the Alexandria Seaport Foundation. I think they might have been from the Historic Hawaii Foundation. It might have been the guys in this video. They described an interesting if somewhat suicidal shop built relative of an angle grinder with one large tooth on the rotor. We were a but skeptical about the advisability of using the thing. It tended to buck a little when the tooth grabbed. They said the operator made some armor to wear while using it after he got out of the hospital. So if you do go with power tools, theirs was not a good idea. There is a video of a related dugout outrigger, the Leilani.

 

[Skip Johnson]

To win the MR340 doesn't appear to require speed, any Finish under 100 hours would be a record, as I understand it?

Current record is 33.01 hours done by a multiman boat. There are categories for almost any craft so whoever finally finishes the race in a dugout will hold the record for that category. The records for categories usually cluster around specific years when the water was swift all down the course.

 

[Wgrabow]

We lived in Panama for three years. When we arrived, cayucas (hewn from a single log) were a major form of marine transport. We had a native housekeeper who said she wouldn't trust a boat built with adhesives and separate planks. Our family rode in a dugout, about 40 feet long and 3 feet wide, which took us along the ocean coast to a remote beach. They have huge trees in the triple canopy forest there. However, today most of those cayucas have been replaced by newer designs. Routinely, the smaller dugout hulls were only about one inch thick at the topsides.

 

[gonzo]

I've rowed similar dugouts in the Amazon. The shapes are quite sophisticated and efficient.