Duck Boat tragedy

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by fallguy, Jul 20, 2018.

  1. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Your posts become rather off topic here, but go ahead if you like a pacifier, I'm sure you're able to find an appropriate forum for the ideas you've just posted.
     
  2. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)


    P.S. - One even seems to drink it from 2:59 to 3:04, it seems to taste like your posts, not fresh . . :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  3. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . _ _ _ . . . _ _ _

  4. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
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    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    I believe he is mostly just trolling. I think I've stated my opinion/thoughts clearly enough. I will be looking forward to the ducks to show up on bankruptcy sales and on ebay shortly. One would be fun to own.
     
  5. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . _ _ _ . . . _ _ _

    I think a Duck may be just the boat for you JG!
    Good luck!
    Or should I say, good Duck!
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I am not surprised that the tourist operators persist with these ancient vehicles, when you look at the money required to replace them with more modern alternatives. This one has an asking price around $AUD one million.
    - 44 Pax plus 2x crew
    - Caterpillar 3208 with Hamilton jet drive
    - No suspension, vessel rides on soft tyres
    - No shafts, minimal maintenance hydraulic drive
    - Fully sealed hubs and brakes
    - 8-9 Knots cruise
    - 45 Kmph on road
    Width is just 2,5m
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

  8. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    You know this is supposed to be an objective place.

    I am sorry, but talking about people who die choking on a piece of chicken skin or any other non-boating etc., ain't right.

    I find the effort bewildering.

    If the canopy were removed even, the vessel would be much safer, but people would get hot in the sun... oh no..2

    I think there is enough of a track record to reduce these to an amusement park splash ride.

    Ban them.
    Boycott them.
    Dustbin them.

    I would love to see a side by side comparison of the power developed by Mr. E's fancy new cat diesel powered and the woeful power available in the one in the video as well as other real differences. They still look like a casket on water. But I am guessing there are things like reserve buoyancy differences, etc.

    Demanding a performance evaluation isn't bad.

    True story for you friends. ...my grandfather was very proud to have one of the early Ford cars; drove his mom to church on day and she fell out of the car and got run over bu her own son's back wheel and was killed...from those accidents was a horrific injustice done?

    No. Car doors got safety latches; locking mechanisms; locking on driving forward, etc.

    There is nothing wrong with an objective damnation of those things that cause 17 people to perish to bad BOAT DESIGN. And if it doesn't support my assertion to ban them; so be it.
     
  9. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    This one is a LARC, used for tourist excursions in central Queensland. These are 3 metres wide, a much more substantial vessel than a DUKW, and I think similar ones are still used professionally in flood rescue, and the like.
    seventeen-seventy.jpg
     
  10. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
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    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    I am pretty sure those aren't street legal though, and certainly much more expensive to operate.

    But they didn't ban cars. Which is what you are advocating here. And you can still drive that Ford with its killer doors today.

    You're gonna be really busy if your going to objectively damnate everything that causes people to perish. Demanding knee jerk, mass punishment regulation and control over innocent parties IS bad.

    The operators here can, will, and should be held liable for their negligence, and the whole tour boat business will suffer because of it ("Thats why we can't have nice things"). It will drive a lot of out of the market and those that remain, because their business can support the higher costs because of all the hand wringers and worry-warts will have to up their game and make sure their vehicles are operated safely. That is what we should expect, not ridiculous totalitarian restrictions.
     
  11. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Your polemics aren't even good, fellow. Try to talk boats. If you can reject my assertion on technical grounds; go for it.

    If all you can do is call someone a hand wringer or worry wart; find a new debate because you are losing. Everyone here knows when people resort to name calling; they are not winning.

    Let's try this again.

    The video shows a vessel that looks very much like an open tin can being filled with water. This is supported by a survivor statement. No lover of boats can find this comforting as a charter vessel.

    They need more power; more reserve buoyancy; easier escape like no canopy, for example. You can't suggest they are only suitable for puddles. They have been operated on lakes for years.

    The death toll or one's political view on the role of government is not the issue.

    The craft is not safe in a stiff chop and the video shows it.
     
  12. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
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    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    I didn't call you a "hand wringer" or "worry wart", since you probably don't have any legislative power, although the adjective appears appropriate.

    Technical grounds:
    Perhaps you shouldn't get all of your information 2nd & 3rd hand, pure speculation, and from sensationalist media? Go take a ride on one (I'm sure there's a duck tour somewhere on the East coast still for a while)? Or at least listen to someone who has actually been on board one?

    The other duck caught in this same storm made it to the shore safely. Strange how they have been operating for decades and decades now and yet aren't killing people all the time.
    The video appears to look like your average vessel that is foundering. Plenty of boats that are sinking do this too. Lots of small craft are not safe in a stiff chop. Do you want to ban all boats while you are telling other people what to do?
     
  13. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    You have to make a distinction between private use and commercial use for hauling people. The authorities don't much regulate what you do privately, but commercially these things are quite questionable.
    I think the guy that designed them said they work better than any truck in the water and any boat on the road. That's not saying much.
    All the truck frame and transmission, transfer cases and everything is inside the hull, beneath the floor. They don't have room for positive flotation, they certainly sink awful fast.
    I know one of the sinkings with casualties was caused by the rubber boot disintegrating that sealed where the transfer case shaft exited to the propeller. I've no idea if there are more through hull fittings.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    .
    I haven't looked at these yet....





    I thought they were around $250,000 but I guess not...
    $70,000 for a Swimming DUKW - There Aren't That Many Running Ones Left https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/swimming-dukw.html

    .
     

  15. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Interesting you say you aren't name calling but the same thing as an adjective is okay. Now that there is some spin from the supposed no spin man.
    Your idea of technical grounds is to refer to sensationalist media and tell me to go ride in a duck boat? ...and gloss over Ondarvr's comment he'd never ride again?

    The fact is these craft are not defendable and you are proving it.

    I realize this will certainly go answered in the never ending attempt to shame cogent thought.

    Facts are hard to dispute.

    The skipper of that doomed boat also believed it was safe and noone even put on a pfd in a violent storm, but the video evidence of an unsafe commercial passenger vessel is damning evidence all the rhetoric in the world can't overwhelm.

    And the difference between a charter and a small private boat is vast in a society of rules. The people getting on the charter expect first a safe trip. I don't get onboard to be told by anyone life vests are unneeded. And I dare say not lots, but few small boats are unsafe in a stiff chop. If they capsize to skipper error; the person in a small boat in rough seas generally does not overtrust the vessel as safe when NOT, and they vest up! See these differences?

    Furthermore, the vessel does not look like an 'average floundering vessel'. The weight of the craft or understructure or both affords it no or nearly no vertical motion in a head sea. Have you ever been on any 40' boat that fails to rise in the bows in a choppy head sea?

    How about a boat that can't make forward progress under power in a 60mph wind. What then does the skipper do? Put the sea following?

    Please stop reflecting on everything else. The vessel is not right for charter. The actions taken by a likely young, now deceased skipper all certainly evolved from a false sense of unrealistic vessel safety; from failing to vest passengers to failing to get to the nearest shore versus heading into the seastate the vessel was incapable to manage. Even realizing the vessel was going to sink; he could have ordered passengers to sea unvested and lives saved.

    The wrongs here are too many to be foolishly defended.
     
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