Dory for rowed ocean crossing

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by gfaw, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. bregalad
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    bregalad Senior Member

  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Anyway, solo trans-oceanic rowing is old hat, been done a number of times, and a long time ago. What about wind-surfing, or crossing the ocean on a door, or an inflatable mattress, there's a real challenge ! :D
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Most of the recent "rowers" do more drifting than rowing. After all Bombard did it with no supplies.
     
  4. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Rowing to stay in the current would be helpful. I doubt many such rowers leave shore in ignorance of the prevailing currents, rowing against them would be a little tiring.
     
  5. gfaw
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    gfaw Junior Member

    Well, I can assure you that I am well aware of what I plan putting myself into. This is not about denial of sensible safety measures for the fun of it, this is about getting the most bang for the buck.

    I originally asked about the pros and cons of a flat-bottom dory boat for this undertaking frm a boat builders perspective, sort of.
     
  6. gfaw
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    gfaw Junior Member

    Well, there's certainly a certain amount of drifting involved, but, would a cyclist avoid downhills or tailwind to please others by proving he's a "real" cyclist?

    As for Bombard: some say he had been resupplied. Dr Hannes Lindemann definitely didn't, altough he didn't start with nothing. But he suffered a lot from lack of movement. That's why I'd prefer rowing.
     
  7. gfaw
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    gfaw Junior Member

    None would/should. I simply doesn't work this way.
     
  8. peterAustralia
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    peterAustralia Senior Member

    the flat bottomed banks dory that Blyth and Ridgeway used can work. I read their book, it was very good. I think they used that dory because it was available readily made at a pretty low price. In Iain Oughtred's catalog of designs he writes the multichine swampscott dory would be a better boat.

    Having a few chines per side makes for a slightly longer build time, but not massively so. Pretty sure would be the way to go as opposed to the simpler banks dory.
     
  9. Tom.151
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    Tom.151 Senior Member

    My 2 cents... for your stated purpose, the flat-bottom dory
    * is a far too inefficient a design for your planned trip(s). Slower means: carrying more stores, which means going slower, which means more boat is needed - the vicious circle.
    * is not sufficiently less expensive to build to warrant the compromise. Up to date materials and building methods will give you a much lighter, stronger, better performing boat.
    * is not appreciably easier to build for the novice builder (compared to a modern stitch and glue design). Anyone can do stitch and glue! There are lots of good tutorials for the novice. See http://www.pygmyboats.com/stitch-and-glue-videos.html for a good example.

    Please, building the "right boat for your trip" is the way to approach it - economize elsewhere.

    Sincerely, from 40 years of wood/epoxy boatbuilding perspective, and with best wishes,
     
  10. bpw
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    bpw Senior Member

    Building boats in "cheap" countries often costs more since quality material is harder to source. I would guess the USA is probably the cheapest place in the world to self build, lots of cheap and second hand stuff around. Material costs for plywood and epoxy are often much higher in other places since there is a much smaller market for high quality boat building materials

    Communications gear is overrated unless you need to keep sponsors happy, buy an epirb and save your money.

    Seems a watermaker might be overkill and pretty expensive. A hundred day crossing should need 50 gallons or less of water, sure that is a bit of weight, but if your not racing I doubt it would be that big of a deal and would be getting lighter every day.
     
  11. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Andy,
    welcome to the board. You asked so here is my expertise and what I think.

    You have an ambitious project that is very difficult but not groundbreaking. Funding is a major issue and you are asking about saving by building a new boat. Looking at the boats referenced so far my thought is that they are bigger than they need to be and that smaller is cheaper, and takes less power at low speed (optimum boat length is a function of your sustained thrust capabilities). Reduced surface area from multichine or round bottom is worthwhile.

    That said I don't think that building your boat is a significant savings. Your campaign cost will not be improved significantly by building the boat others have already built. I would look at it the other way around, is there a boat design that would make funding increase to cover the campaign? Dories have already rowed across oceans, would someone pay to see another design make the trip? Ecology is a focus, could you demonstrate this with sustainable or recycled materials? The big cost I see that is not addressed is the cost of moving the boat around the world -this is where your boat could be designed to significantly reduce your funding needs. I also think it would improve the echo cred of your campaign if you didn't rely on fossil fueled ships to cart your big boat around so you can row it.

    At this point I should say that small human and natural (wind wave solar...) powered craft are my 'thing' so I can be considered biased, but I assume no influence greater than the power of my reasoning. That said, the craft I would propose that is worth building to reduce your campaign cost and carbon footprint would be one that breaks down for storage and transport. Sailing it from port to port would cut the petro stench from your fundraising. The last benefit is that the reduced cost of storage and transport expands the ability of the boat to 'tour' to deliver your message and fund raise while you are biking and after you complete various stages.

    I also think you have a muddled message for your campaign. The tagline is about 'human power' but then you talk about small carbon footprint. It might be seen as claiming ecology to fund glory seeking. White guys are least likely to get funding for glory projects. Your nationality does not help anywhere but Germany and Germans have a very high standard for ecology. Please don't take my discussion of prejudices the wrong way (I am part German) but it is important to consider how you are perceived.

    You don't seem to have any rowing experience, are you opposed to other means of human propulsion? Paddle? Peddle? There may be some 'first's elsewhere. I don't think there has ever been a circumnavigation completely by peddling.

    In closing I should say there is a lot of talent evident in your experience and your web site. I hope my comments can help you with a great campaign.
     
  12. bpw
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    bpw Senior Member

    Oceans have been crossed in Klepper folding kayaks, and you could bag it up and tow it behind you bike for the land bits...perhaps unrealistic but not sure if "human powered" has much point if you are trucking the boat all over the place. You would use less (possibly none except for cooking) fuel on a sailboat.
     
  13. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    the cost of building one type of hull over another is relatively minor cost of this kind of trip. The savings would not be worth it at all if it created a boat not suitable, or less likely to complete the adventure.

    You should take the extra time to build the most suited boat for your intended trip. It will make the trip much more likely to succeed. I just can not see the point is have less than the ideal boat to save perhaps $800 on a trip that will likely end up costing $50,000 or more. You must weigh savings up front with all other considerations.

    It is often cheaper to buy a good used boat (and refit if necessary) than building from scratch, so if it is pure savings you are looking for, buy a used boat.
     
  14. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    And I still argue that reuading Greg's posts on the topic would have been good. regardless of the design choices.

    And I don't think Skyak has the right mentality with the assumption that it needs to be a well funded project. The business side is where you find the solutions. Not by skimping on the boat's design.

    I don't know how you are going to gain experience but I or any company I would be representing wouldn't sponsor a guy who has zero experience. I have a good friend who will likely climb Everest one day. He started with Kilimanjaro, he goes out nearly every weekend, he has since done Akinkago (sp?), Denali and some Alps. He loves his "neighbourhood" mountains in Sierra Nevadas. He loves the camping and all that goes with it. Many people wouldn't.

    How do you know you would like 180 days in a 20ft boat? You don't know if you would like 20 days in one. This kind of expeditions need a progression. Its silly to think that would start rowing hobby by circumnavigating. Now all reeks of naiivete and thus will hinder your funding attempts more than being German (which I don't think is a negative for most, kind of meaningless in todays world).

    Greg's discussions would have been good because he had serious experience (kind of like you have on a bike) and thus strong will to succeed and strong idea that he can find solutions himself but sea was unfamiliar factor. Sea can be ruthless and the journey quite different from traveling the world on land where you can socialize and get help from strangers.

    I don't mean to be a naysayer but if you want to do this you need t be able to train and practice for quite a while and it all - even on optimized budget - is a big enough undertaking that saving on the hull will be rather pointless. What do you see as reasonable price for constructing the hull?
     

  15. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Seems a watermaker might be overkill and pretty expensive.

    A solar still is just a bit of plastic and weighs almost nothing .
     
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