Doors and Windows - What's the Story?

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by CatBuilder, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    So I'm already getting to the point where I need to figure out how to do the windows for the deckhouse.

    I am trying to do windows just like these, which have a slight recess, about the same as the thickness of the glass, plus the adhesive. My only problem is, I don't know how to do them.

    [​IMG]

    How do you make the recess lip that the window sits on? :confused:

    I can't imagine how to do this with a foam/glass panel. If I router it out, there is core showing and that core has a 90 degree angle to it where the lip starts. Glass won't go around that 90 degree lip.

    How would you make a panel such as the one that holds the window in the above picture?



    On to doors...

    While we're at it, how do I do the recesses on the doors like you see in this picture?

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    I was going to suggest router but if you say it won't work, perhaps you can make flush fitting pre-framed windows to go in the openings.
     

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  3. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    A router might work, but how do you deal with the glass over foam in that case?

    If you router out a pre-made panel, you end up routering out some glass around that lip edge. You then have a 90 degree turn from the flat, normal glassed surface to the lip you just made. Glass can't go around 90 degree turns.

    Same thing if you router it before you glass the panel.

    I am not looking to have frames. I need to do it just like in the picture so the windows not only look good, but so they don't leak. Frames are very bad.
     
  4. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    You may have to rout the recess then go back and rout or sand the radius curve as shown here. Don't worry about the cove area just glass and let it take its natural curve. Epoxy to fill the gap between the core-cell and the glass.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Hmmm... maybe. Seems like it could work. Is there any type of consensus to be had here? Would everyone agree with Hoyt's last picture? Is that the way to do it?

    The edge still looks awfully tight for the fiberglass cloth to go around without lifting and getting voids. I don't imagine the rebate would be much more than 1/4" deep.

    I'm surprised nobody else on here knows exactly how this is done. It's standard procedure on all new production boats.
     
  6. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Have you considered obtaining a lighter weight cloth (tape) with a more diminutive turning radius for this particular application? It would seen appropriate to do so.
     
  7. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    I have a whole roll of it. 6oz cloth to be specific. It needs a pretty rounded edge though. I don't think it would take even an edge like you see on the deck on the edge of that pad the the winches are on.

    You really need a round edge to take glass.

    Thanks for your help though, Hoyt. I think we're pretty close here, but I just don't get what they do with the glass. Heck, maybe it's just structural bog instead.

    That's usually the solution when you can't get glass into somewhere small and square.... just don't know though.
     
  8. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Will it bend around a 1/4" dowell? That would be a 1/8" radius curve on the core.
     
  9. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    We will have to wait for one more knowledgeable. This is all theoretical for me with no practical experience on this issue.

    Perhaps you could build a small mock-up at the proper thickness to test it.
     
  10. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    I could, but it's a time thing. I just need to know how it's done so I can get to work. No time to screw around at all. Everything being done is being done with a purposeful momentum toward the end goal.

    We do have two hulls up (one needs some outer skin infused on), rudders done, boards done, all bulkheads coved in, all but 2 beams done, one hull mostly faired. That's because we are flying now. I can't slow things down to play around with stuff. Just need to know how to do it then bang it out. :D

    Surprised no pro builders are on this forum who make some of the new production boats. It's done on all the boats now, really. You just can't tell how the rebate is made because it's painted and/or under the caulking and glass.

    You're probably right... and just as knowledgeable as anyone else (more so maybe??) but I just want to double and triple check so I can get the idea and run with it. I have 360 degrees of windows on the bridgedeck and tons of doors in the hulls to do like this. See that 2nd picture above in my first post? That's what the windows will be like in quantity. Lots and lots of work to do on them.
     
  11. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Here is what I would do, esp' if the panels are flat.
    -Apply the principles here http://us01.webdms.sika.com/fileshow.do?documentID=1289 esp in regards to edge clearance & bedding depth( I always make the landing wider than specced)
    -Mold the rebate in on a laminating table( otherwise detailing cloth into a rebate& building a neat edge will be PITA)
    -Think inside out-but build from outside in, mark out table to panel shape
    - using for example maybe 1/2"(thickness actually dependent on glass + bedding thickness) melamine faced craft wood/MDF make your window shapes(these can be re profiled by the edge clrearance & used for glass templates
    -put a draw angle or bevel around the edge
    -carefully & neatly apply packing tape to & around edge
    -lightly hot melt glue window shape in correct position to table marking out
    -push a little plasticine available from FG supplyer to edges & tool out with a little heat from heat gun to seal inside corner
    -wax & release agent to table
    -laminate outside skin & apply roving to smooth inside corner & 4-6 oz cloth & epoxy filler mix to "help" get around the corners
    -Vac bag carefully cut foam core to "core adhesive" mix to outside skin & apply good core bedding process/resin prime etc
    -laminate inside skin
    -Choose edge treatment for core close out to window appeture etc(shoulda said earlier)Also incorperate a tabbing rebate to perimeter to assist in fairing joins
    -De mold from table & window rebate shape, grind tabbing rebates & install to vessel
    -sand & fair..............................
     
  12. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    That is why it would be useful to make a small say 1 foot square mock-up to be sure the technique will work. Perhaps making a window in a door would be a good test and the window would be a safety feature.
     
  13. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    My method will work but that's a terrific idea for CB to hone his application of it, the details of the window thickness/ aperture close out need to be specified by designer. All the best from Jeff.
     
  14. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    You beat me to the post. My quote was meant to follow post 10. I have no doubt your method will work. I probably said it wrong anyway. I should have said "will work for your application"
     

  15. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Ah ha! Bagging is the secret to getting the 6oz to go around the tight corner. I have no idea why i was thinking of this as an open hand lamination after the panel was already done.

    Thank you, Jeff, for that detailed post. I'll try that and it sounds like it will work, no problem.
     
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