Do boat designers need to be naval engineers

Well yes, young people (unless born to a rather wealthy family) generally cannot afford themselves to own a boat. Plus, they have other ways of spending their free time. A boat serves mainly to evade from the crowd and get to a peaceful place where one can recharge his mental and physical batteries. Quite the opposite, in my opinion and personal (past... ) experience, to what young people seek and need.

 

My nephew, not born to a wealthy family but with a good job as an engineer, bought a used "runabout" soon after graduating from college. He uses it to take his friends on the water and pull them in a tube or on waterskis. He's in the US and the the situation may be different elsewhere.

True for some but perhaps not the majority. Quite a few folks buy boats to be seen in and to make a statement about who they are, or at least who they want people to think they are. Or maybe they are making a statement to themselves. Making a statement applies to both some (but not all) folks who buy "passagemakers" as well as go-fast boats, etc.

 

PAR. That piping story really happened. At the shipyard we all had different color hard hats to indicate what department we worked in. Engineer's were blue. In my job I had to spend a lot of time on the ships being built, and I always had some machinist or electrician or someone pulling me aside and shoving a blue print in my face and saying "explain this to me", simply because I wore a blue hat. Usually they were just confused by the symbols, or the notes were horribly written. But this one shiprfitter showed me a blueprint that had fuel piping running right through ventilation ducts and electrical conduit running smack through fuel pipes. Whoever the draftsman was, they weren't paying attention!

My point was vessel design whether it is yachts, ships or small boats is a team effort. The stylist/designer makes it look pretty, but if the hull shape won't achieve the design requirements, then it's no good. And vice versa. You can have a very functional hull, but if the prospective owner says it looks like a tank barge, then it's still no good. It requires coordinated teamwork. Sure, if the vessel is small enough one person can do it all, if they have the knowledge and skills. But these days it is more often a team effort. Each person contributes their skill to the final product.

 

For me, you are not wrong. You are right.
It seams you had your share of working with customers who want to include their "decorator" or "designer" in the project, and it looks you are venting some frustration. I don't see anything wrong to do it on this forum.
I think we have to remember that Alik is responsible for a lot of very interesting and professionally motivated posts.
People like Alik, Ad Hoc, Par, Mike Johns, and other I just forget the name, sorry about that, are highly professional and I thanks them to take the time to share their knowledge. I read them avidly and they inspire me.
Lister

 

Is his economical situation rappresentative of the rest of his generation in US? I am asking because a situation like your nephew's would be very uncommon (or I could say - nearly inexistant) in Italy, for example.

 

He graduated with a four year degree in electrical engineering seven years ago and took a job which pays about average for someone with an engineering degree. Jobs for engineering graduates typically pay more than those of graduates in other fields. Of course for the last few years jobs have been tough to find for graduates in most fields.

My guess is he paid under $10,000, perhaps considerably less, for the boat which he bought used but in very good condition. It is a "bow rider" made by Sea Ray, about 18' in length with a V6 engine and I/O drive.

Small powerboats may be much more common and considerably less expensive in the US than in Italy and some other parts of Europe. My impression is that boat ownership, particularly smaller boats, is much more widespread in the US. Most smaller boats are kept on trailers, frequently behind the owner's house.

 

I understand Peter, I've worn the blue hard hat on occasion too and people make mistakes, sometimes with computer assistance.

I'm not sure who posted it, but naval ships decidedly do have styling clues all over them. If you study a particular navies ship, you'll note there's a theme in regard to styling. Once familiar, you can easily point of a USN ship or a Italian frigate. They have features that don't need to be there, but get justified by "conformance" or other rational, usually fairly specific set of guidelines. Granted styling isn't carried very fair on most USN ships, but the styling clues are easy enough to pick up.

 

Difficult to judge boat ownership. In the Netherlands everyone seems to have a boat out back because everyone lives on the water.. In the Mediterranean, geography of the coast makes small craft ownership expensive...all man made ports and limited access to the water for normal folks. In the port Im presently berthed a noraml person couldnt afford to keep a boat, limited space, very high berth fees. In the US ,from Texas to Florida and all the way to Maine is essentially one big harbour...the ICW. This geography makes small craft ownership cheap and easy

 

A bit off topic, but...

He was lucky to be born in the US then. The sad reality in Italy, but also in several other European countries, is that young people are underpayed. A freshly graduated engineer, in any field, will get on average 1200-1500 Euros/month, so any thoughts about buying a boat are just dreams, postponed for the older age (often remains a dream even in the older age). The wage will eventually become something like 2400-2500 Euros/month after many years or decades of hard work, but will seldom grow any bigger than that.
Boat owners here are exactly how JosephT described them - old men with grey hair, sunglasses and successful private business (usually in the field of finances or real estate). That's why the biggest part of the yacht market here is made of powerboats. Sailboats are, in most cases, too physically demanding and uncomfortable for older persons, and hence make just a tiny percentage of boats sold each year. The young people are left with other, cheaper pleasures that life offers them.
But... I am digressing here, as usual.

 

It is unfortunate that the " System" in very many european countries benifits the old generation..the generation with secure jobs..while restricting the growth potential of the new generation.

Perhaps the catastrophe that is affecting Europe will concentrate minds and reform labour, social protection laws to encourgae new generation growth.

Old Europe produces too many University educated MilEurista's .

 

The worlds financial system is rotten to the bone and needs to be reset, even if it will be very painful for everyone. Each day that passes by I am getting more convinced about that.
But now you have thrown me into even further digression...

 

Paul
Same with workboats but I think those subtle styles are very minor and sometimes more to do with the paint and windows than the vessel itself.
Neither the coastal fishing vessel nor the naval Frigate start as a conceptual style from a 'stylist' rather I think the designer leaves subtle clues to their marine cultural heritage.
Although these days there is very little to discern between them, Like the last days of the clipper ships sailors themselves couldn't discern the difference between the British and American clippers since their functional designs evolved towards a common practical seaworthy style.

Yachts are different of course and some of them are obviously intended to be works of art with compromised functionality. That's the Stylist first, NA second approach.

Here's an eye catching display that is nothing more than prudence (spares) and functional hydrodynamics. Cleverly provided as very artistic sculptures on the liners foredeck. They are even arranged functionally as to be positioned by the crane. Fantastic artwork though.

 

We are naturally attracted by round and smooth bodies. Sexy things are rounded and curvaceous, not flat and linear.
Alik has noticed earlier that:

One of my professors of airplane design used to say that generally an airplane which flies well also looks good. That's because the process of aerodynamic optimization produces curvaceous surfaces which look sexy to our eyes. In Mike Johns' picture we have the same thing happening. Propeller blades shaped by pure physics into beautiful sculptures. Both examples can testify that there are instances where pure engineering can produce good-looking shapes and artworks too.

Even pure math can produce artwork, fractals are a classic example: http://browse.deviantart.com/digitalart/fractals/

 

That is subjective of course, it's very dependent on both the vessel size, its purpose, as well as the culture that you are expecting to 'wow'.

I think elegance is often sacrificed to a style. If you lose elegance the boat has no chance of ever becoming a timeless attractive design.

For example a classic sheerline, a bold deckhouse, clean well thought out delineation that pronounces a practical seaworthy craft will never go out of style.

The curved modernism goes too far, almost toward the bulbous at times. It's as though the designer is saying "lets make it look as different from a boat as possible" while forgetting or not bothering to learn just what advantages are being lost by departing so far from practical designs.
The result can be very eye catching but still appear to all the real seafarers as a practical nightmare little more than a parody of a boat.

It's apparent that some of the stylists have never been to sea in their life and have a poor understanding of the science behind the design of a vessel. I look at many of the proffered renderings and I think of the poor people who are crewing the boat to it's next port for the owner to fly in.

I suspect a lot of the European modernistic designs are not so much designed for practical seagoing but more for harbourside entertainment and privacy.

 

Im doing a deck project today, nice sunshine .

The neighbor on starboard is a Modern , highly styled, 30 meter motor yacht .

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but At the dock it looks OK to me.

The form and function , stern facing , details for boarding tender storage and line handling are very well executed.

But when I see this yacht at sea , at displacement speed, it looks like a rounded blob, a motorized suppository... from head on and profile perspective ... with no distinct lines and way too tall for its length.. Perhaps looking good at the dock is an important feature for clients commissioning these.