DIY bluewater pocket cruiser for four

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by Travkin, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Travkin
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 9
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: High Springs Florida

    Travkin Junior Member

    So my designing skillset is horrible, but my building skillset is decent. I am a disabled vet, and my family and i want to live aboard a tiny bluewater cruiser, that we build ourselves. I would prefer it to be designed for Cedar strip, that way i can get a nice varnish job on the hull. I think that natural wood finish would be beautiful. too few people leave above their waterline natural wood... but i digress. I have talked to numerous designers, and one even quoted me over $4,000 just to modify one of their designs to better suit my needs. The designer sells the design prior to modification at under $500. To me it is outrageous. if i was a designer, id want to see my designs floating, rather than charging outrageous sums. Honestly i like the classic lines of old woodies, but i also like the utilitarian approach of Bolger, and Welsford (Fafnir and Swaggie). I am a fan of bilge keels, as i require a shallow draft for going up rivers, and in general, i just like their utility. I also think that the mast, or masts need to be counterbalanced on a tabernacle to make it as easy as possible to drop the mast(s) for low bridges. I would like it to be powered by an outboard in a well. I like having the ability to carry an entire spare engine, and be able to swap them out in minutes. anyone have any design ideas? hull shape, interior ideas, im really looking for some out of the box thinking. I want a boat that is definitely one of a kind.
    Maximum Length 30' Maximum Width 9.5' max draft 4'
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 470, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Lets see if I have this right; you want a full up custom design, maybe a modification to an existing design, of which you're not sure of, ballasted masts in tabernacles (sounds like a divided rig too), outboard in a well, with a spare in a drawer nearby, bilge keels (because why build one when you can spend twice the effort and money on two), odd possibly innovative engineering approaches, no idea of hull form type or accommodations you might desire, all for fairly cheap? Is this about the way you see it? How many hours do you think, pulling teeth on the design parameters this might take, between you and the designer? How much do you make per hour and do you think this is enough for the designer? How many hours would you guess drawing this puppy up may take (it'll be more than you think) and should they get the same fee per hour as the teeth pulling sessions? Given the countless 30' yacht designs available, you should find one that rings many of your bells and whistles and have it changed (if necessary) for the features and aesthetics you want.
     
  3. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,754
    Likes: 257, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    How about also
    1) Fit in a container on its trailer
    2) Water ballasted
    3) Stern and Internal Navigation Station (Wheel Steering)
    4) Water Ballasted
    5) Fully retracting Daggerboards
    6) 2o Knots with 70 HP Outboard
    7) Self Tacking Jib


    RPG02.png RPG01.png
     
  4. Travkin
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 9
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: High Springs Florida

    Travkin Junior Member

    Rwatson, thank you for your input. I like alot of your design points, but I really want her to be optimized for performance under sail. When I saw the MacGregor 26 on the water for the first time, planing, I thought it was a very cool design, but alas, I enjoy the wind in my sails rather than paying for fuel :). She will live most of her life in the water. The only time she will need to be on a trailer in the forseeable future would be the trip from here in high springs, to Green cove springs Florida, to be splashed. Because of this beam can be between 8'6" and 12' so that even with a wide load permit, I only need one escort. This means that daggerboards and water ballast are not necessary. I prefer bilge keels because although you experience a drop in windward performance, when done properly they decrease yard fees and allow me to inspect my hull regularly without pulling her out. Unfortunately PAR seems to think that I am a ***** for giving a designer creative license. I want a pocket cruiser. Usually PAR, that is under 30'. Also, like I already said, I want a comfortable blue water hull. None of this wide transom, twin helm, planning hull crap that is so common with mainstream designs lately. Just because you like to think of yourself as superior doesn't mean you are, especially if you think of yourself a professional designer, yet are not even intelligent enough to extrapolate basic data from my post. At least Rwatson threw in some ideas. All you seem to do is troll. Yes, I only make 5k a month. I am not overly wealthy, but $4000 for a minor revision to already well established plans is absurd. I could understand a few thousand for a full custom plan, but an alteration is just rediculous. Tell me PAR, do you have a website where I can view the beautiful designs your massively superior intellect has created? Thank you Rwatson for your input. That is an awesome design, and for coastal cruising, island hopping and fast travel, I'm sure it is perfect. Unfortunately I want a short, fat shallow draft bilge keeler that will be at home cruising the Florida coast, but can handle truly nasty weather if required.
     
  5. Travkin
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 9
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: High Springs Florida

    Travkin Junior Member

    Ultimately the dimensions I have specified are not written in stone, however I'm trying to get the most interior volume in a compact hull as possible, without loosing too much performance and aesthetics. As for my family, it is me, my wife, and two kids. I would want a forward v berth or double, and my thought is two quarter berths that can be separated from the main accomodations with enough room to stand up and pull on your pants. I also want a small head compartment with enough space for a shower and composting head. There is a tiny house designer that has managed to compact the bathroom size in his tiny house down to 2'x 3.5'. I want port and starboard seating that is big enough to seat 4 comfortably, and a small galley big enough for an ice box, two burner, and a single bowl sink. I want it under 35', but ideally as small as possible. Look to Welsfords swaggie design for inspiration, as I like it's rugged design, just not it's lack of a head.
     
  6. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 5,754
    Likes: 257, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Travkin,with all due respect, I think you are doing yourself a BIG disservice.

    The truth is that there are a dozen "champagne taste, beer budget" schemes a year on this site, and Par has seen and contributed sensibly input to most of them.

    Unfortunately, it seems that your expectations are way out of line with the current economic realities, thereby dooming your project from the start.
     

  7. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 1,800
    Likes: 55, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 608
    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Why do you want to build? As usual the cheapest and quickest way into boating is to buy something as close as possible to what you think you want and then modify it. If you truly must have a twin keel one of the Westerly line may suit, The centaur at 26ft or Renown closer to 30ft I think. If you must build, and there are good reasons to do so such as the pleasure of the process itself or pride of having built it yourself, then a nice option that could give you many of the advantages of the twin keel with better sailing performance could be a wide stub keel with centerboard with a set of beaching legs. Bateaux sells plans for a very nice boat called the Vagabond 26 which would be good candidate. No you won't be finishing it bright but that just guarentees more maintainance anyway and you can varnish the whole interior if you want. Its plywood construction so will go together fairly quickly and is offered as a CNC cut kit for about 8k or plans only for $350. All very reasonable. Stick a 9.9 high thrust Yamaha on it and a set of legs and you will have a very versatile good looking boat as long as you have reasonable build skills.

    Steve.
     
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