Directly against the wind?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Windmaster, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. Windmaster
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    Windmaster Senior Member

    Using the wind to go downwind faster than the wind seems an established fact now (reported today on NALSA website). But as yet, nobody has thought of a practical use for this technology. In the opposite direction, going directly against the wind should surely be more useful, since sailboats can't normally do this and sailors often wish they could do it.
    New research here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rw_qJytbG8 seems to indicate that it's much easier than anyone thought.
     
  2. magwas
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    magwas Senior Member

    I would be interested in some simple calculations wrt wmg of this type of device vs with traditional sailboat tacking against the wind.
    I am not implying it is slower, just would like to see numbers.
    However I think that practical applications are a long way to go yet. Not just the question of how to make such a thing stable, work in wide variations of wind speed and in any direction. I wonder in which common shipping routes would this be competitive with sailboats. For example could it be faster and easier to get from the caribbean to the med in the trade wind zone than the same with a sailboat in north?

    And of course speed efficiency is not the first concern in every application. I can imagine that in 50 years such crafts would be used for fishing and as freighters, but I cannot imagine to live aboard a windmill.
     
  3. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    That is the problem with inventions/discoveries. Having “made it” does not automatically equate to being useful or a marketable technology.

    If there is no market, doesn’t matter how wonderful the production/invention is, it just remains on the shelf collecting dust. Can’t force people to buy/use what they don’t want/need.

    The C5 by Sir Clive Sinclair, is a good example.
     
  4. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Fun but wouldn't call it news. Expect for someone waking up from ~30yrs sleep.. :rolleyes:
     
  5. gggGuest
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    gggGuest ...

    First done in the 1930s...
     
  6. Windmaster
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    Windmaster Senior Member

    By Whom?
     
  7. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Whom, would be the guy who's idea has been stolen by some few, who have at this point driven several valued members away from of the forum with there deceitful and disingenuous spamming of this site.
     
  8. Windmaster
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    Windmaster Senior Member

    Hi GG Guest think you got it wrong. As far as I know no-one did it in the 1930s - willing to be corrected if you can find out who it was.

    Having the idea for it and actually doing it are two different things.
    As far as the idea goes, someone has found a picture of this idea dated 1335! - No kidding!

    As far as actually sailing directly upwind in a manned boat, I think the first could have been Rob Denney, some time in the 1980's - there were two others around at that time, so I'm not sure what order they came in.

    The video I cited in the original post, is a demonstration, not that it can be done, but that it is easier than most people imagine.
     
  9. gggGuest
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    gggGuest ...

    Lord Brabazon in a Bembridge Redwing.
     
  10. Windmaster
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    Windmaster Senior Member

    No, Lord Brabazon's Cowes Redwing was an Autogiro boat. That is different. On an Autogiro boat the wind-rotor is NOT connected to a propeller underwater, and the rotating blades act in the same way as a normal sail.

    These boats, such as Lord Brabazon's, definately COULD NOT sail directly into the wind, in fact, they could do nothing that any normal sailboat couldn't do.

    Not the same thing at all.
     
  11. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Done before.. and more than once.. Thou didn't find the picture I was looking for; black 'n white from NZ ~30yrs ago..
     

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  12. Windmaster
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    Windmaster Senior Member

    Not saying it hasn't been done before.
    Refer post 8
    "The video I cited in the original post, is a demonstration, not that it can be done, but that it is easier than most people imagine."
    However, nice pictures one of which I never saw before.
     
  13. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    The picture on the left is Camden, Maine. The man is Havilah Hawkins, who used to sail around the bay on a thirty foot boat (pictured). Sometime in the eighties, I think.
     
  14. Windmaster
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    Windmaster Senior Member

    The bottom one is the Flettner rotorship. Not really the same thing as it works on a different principle (and couldn't sail into the wind). The one in the middle is photoshopped. The one on the right is Revelation II currently in Guernsey (UK). However, I heard that it is undergoing repairs at the moment.
    And here's another one for the collection:

    [​IMG]
     

  15. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Herreshoff did it

    L. F. Herreshoff shows a photo of a childhood model boat in one of his books but I cannot locate it. Visualize a flat bottom skiff. Above this empty boat suspend on bearings a light spinning shaft parallel with the fore and aft axis of the boat but raking down 30 degrees to the waterline, immersing the shaft AHEAD of the boat, putting the other end of the shaft rather high in the air just abaft the transom. Put a water propeller on the immersed forward end of the shaft, a wind propeller on the high after end. Voila'. Put it in the water, the wind spins the wind prop which spins the shaft which spins the water prop, which pulls the boat directly upwind. The Herreshoff kids got fun toys.
     
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