Direct Upwind Sailing

Thinking by yourself is fine in many ways, but it can also lead you to waste a lot of effort. After all, the chances of you coming up with an advance over the designs that generations of Polynesians and generations of others used are infinitisimal.

When people have spent thousands of years combining and developing their own knowledge into a vast body of combined knowledge, how can much one person working alone and in ignorance add?

How smart would one person have to be to even approach the combined knowledge of generations that must include many equally intelligent people?

Einstein tried to create a better airfoil section and failed. He later said that it showed the problems of thinking too much and not reading enough. If Einstein could not create one good component of an aerofoil in isolation, what are the chances of one person creating a entire good rig in isolation?

If you "find out some curious features" how will you know that they are "curious" if you don't check to see if others didn't know of them centuries or decades before?

 

Years and years of accumulated experience culminating in the pinnacle of the Swedish and British classics ...

Harrison Butler 'Z' 4-tonner archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/z-4-tonner/z-4-tonner.htm

And the oceanic ignorance of modern sailboat designers (1970-) and their sycophantic and servile palace scribes

 

The "Principles of Yacht Design" manual (1994-2000) is the great historical document of the mainstream of this puzzling industry, whose strong point and professional specialization is certainly to make hulls that do not break; but beyond this it is very puzzling and even depressing from a technical and scientific point of view as well as from the point of view of the experience accumulated by generations and generations of seamen.

 

As much as I hate to interrupt with anything on-topic, there is always Blackbird to argue about.

Wind-powered car goes down wind faster than the wind https://phys.org/news/2010-06-wind-powered-car-faster.html

DownindRecord https://www.nalsa.org/DownWind.html "The big difference in the two crafts is that in the upwind version the **turbine actually powers the wheels while in the downwind version the wheels power the **propeller. In neither case is there any motor, battery or flywheel used for storage."

So, if this isn't just sleight of hand, somehow blowing into the wind produces far more thrust than blowing in still air?

 

"Oceanic ignorance of modern sailboat designers"? Yet another lie. Many post 1970 designers, from Ron Holland and Doug Peterson to Andy Dovell, are very experienced oceanic sailors.

Your lies do you no favours. Perhaps one day you could try honesty and respect instead.

 

Let's not forget German Frers

 

The topic here isn't going upwind, which creates unnecessary slamming and pitching but using direct wind-power-to-shaft propulsion.

And velomobiles, small scale train pods, etc can use VAWT mostly because the tracks or green lanes have no slope and an array of small VAWT wind turbines covered with safety mesh can power vehicles without much complication and simplified technology and no need to consume oil or electricity

 

Exactly. The connection between wind blades and water blades, or in the case of the Blackbird, wheels, is nearly identical. If a set of vains or blades can be made with the same lift efficiency in either direction of rotation, the same vehicle or vessel can manage DIW and DDWFTTW without doing much more than swiveling the windmill/fan and perhapse adjusting the gearing ratios.

-Will

 

My story behind cc sail isn't particular efficiency.I need some special ability that is not connected with aeodynamics. I'm will not use hydrofoils or wingsails because top speed isn't my goal . As its my first sailboat I'm quite curious how my predictions will work or not. Sail itself isn't cc sail already. It's quite copmlicated something. Hull shape isn't similar to sailng vessels . Even proportions are unusual. So it will be experimental boat in couple areas.
I'm very proud that you call the Einstein name , but I'm affraid that I'm not his league . Most of I've done in marine enviroment is observation.And sometimes some ideas. Actually I have couple of sailng boat skechtes and will be rather difficult to find similar designs.

 

No, but it had drifted to spitting into the wind, so I thought that sailing downwind was better than off the rails, and here you go with things on rails. Besides, the first link was about sailing upwind.

So had you checked the links, you might have found that sailing downwind into the apparent wind was done backwards in reverse, "Cavallaro explained the car is able to move faster than the wind because the propeller is not turned by the wind. The wind pushes the vehicle forward, and once moving the wheels turn the propeller. The propeller spins in the opposite direction to that expected, pushing the wind backwards, which in turn pushes the car forwards, turning the wheels, and thus turning the propeller faster still."

The links also addressed upwind travel, but in the intuitively obvious way.

In answer to the question asked of someone else 10 years ago, no. I'm just pointing to some plausible information that is not as easy to dismiss as the treadmill.

So whether the 13% back of the envelope estimate is all she wrote is immaterial, sailing into the wind is possible even if it is mostly impractical.

 

That's all cool, but if you have a very unusual hull design and ignore the ancient wisdom on rig design then how will you isolate what factor causes what effect?

 

Of course the road contact has more torque than air, so if they use a gearbox downwind the wheels could power the propeller, and this could be faster on rails because less friction.


Otherwise I doubt this could happen in a sailboat because water drag and wet area friction, but still the underwater voith propellers could turn the VAWT in downwind with high wind bringing also a stability moment of inertia like flywheels do

Sailboats could use basic flywheels powered by VAWT to stabilise the boat on storms

Sailing upwind is impractical in high seas only. In a lake or downwind coast this could be really practical


Besides using these turbine-propellers for any manoeuvre when you want to keep the sails down and besides of that rowing poles will do in calm conditions

 

I think I am going to print this response and frame it.

 

In this particular case I will check build strenght , it will be easy to see if something broke. Wave handling ,sensitivity to overload and load shifting will be easy to spot.
Sail is experimental and handling is difficult to predict , many points to setup. It will be fun or not...