Diesel outboards

Discussion in 'Diesel Engines' started by Pericles, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    The OXE 200 hp outboard diesel engine is mounted horizontally & uses a carbon fibre belt to reduction drive the propeller. No gearbox & a narrow leg. Modern materials offer unusual solutions. Look how fibre optics enhanced communications.
     
  2. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    I agree, but it is too bad they couldn't be more price competitive. For example, at double the cost of a conventional gas outboard, I would have probably gone for them. Modern materials and engineering are great, but a secondary concern is will the company survive enough for repair parts.
     
  3. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    The free market will decide. Received opinion within marketing circles is that 95% of new products fail, but success or failure are journeys, not destinations. Who uses Polaroid cameras now? Are supplies of film available?

    Nothing lasts forever. Both Roy Batty & Rutger Hauer are gone now.
     
  4. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

  5. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    That's a turn up for the book.
     
  6. Boatman1011
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    Boatman1011 Junior Member

    So what would is the main reason a boater would pay double for a diesel outboard? Maybe for a commercial operator that uses the boat 1,000 hours/year but then you also have the risk of whether an unproven company will survive. The BMW part is interesting but I don’t typically think of BMW for commercial market, they seem more aligned with performance automobiles.
     
  7. KeithO
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    KeithO Senior Member

    I haven't found a picture of the belt drive but I am suspecting belt replacements are going to be an ongoing factor with these motors. The torque pulses of a modern diesel are no joke. When GM started selling Isuzu 2.8L turbo diesel trucks, there was a period of about a year where test technicians kept destroying the driveshafts on the engine dynamometers that had previously been fine for 800hp engines. In the case of the Thielert aircraft engines, they used clutches which would slip at low rpm when the torsional vibration was the worst. But needing a clutch rebuilt every 500 hours got old fast. Of course those engines set some new records for twin engine fuel consumption and range, so it was not all bad, but still an expensive hassle for someone with a certified aircraft.
     
  8. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    In 5th post on page 1 of this thread, David Madsen introduces the OXE 200 hp. He mentions it is fresh water cooled & shows the drive belt. These diesel are designed for commercial use. The large price is paid for by reduced fuel costs. It's a business proposition, just like lease purchasing a BMW car. Japanese cars in the UK lose 65% to 70% of their purchase price in 3 years. BMW cars are more expensive & cost more to lease purchase, but after 3 years their residual value is 60% or so of the purchase price. That's why BMW sales are so robust over here, although 1st January 2021 will be problematic after we exit the EU for good. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  9. KeithO
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    KeithO Senior Member

    Sounds like it has 2 belts, an upper and a lower. Its quite possible that they have some sort of pulsation damper incorporated at the flywheel to try to minimize the torque ripple. Historically the first thing people tried for reduction drives for ultralight and experimental aircraft engines was the same kind of belt but it was never a success. I have to wonder if the (low) momentum of the much smaller diameter prop is what allows this to work ? Usually airplane props are 4-6 ft in diameter, with air there is just no other way to go.
     
  10. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    You appear to be overthinking this & I suggest you contact the Swedes directly, who have had over 4 years of production & no belt failures . They will help you with your questions & musings. BMW are collaborating with OXE & I seriously doubt that two really serious nations, when it comes to engineering, will have not considered at great length, all their options, including quality & construction of the materials used in the drive belt(s).

    OTOH, they may seek to establish your bona fides before interacting with you. Are you familiar with the tripod of sales? Money, Authority & Need. They'll seek to know if you are the decision maker, whether you are looking for their product within their timescales & if you have the finances to complete the purchase, otherwise.......................
     
  11. KeithO
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    KeithO Senior Member

    I think all these guys have done so far is build a bunch of prototype engines and demonstrators. Launching the product and then having it used by tens of thousands of well heeled customers is something they have yet to do.

    If we think back a little, Mercedes Benz had a huge embarrassment when their A class compact car rolled over while doing road testing with journalists. Not too long after that, Mercedes Benz had to withdraw an entire new engine series because it was less fuel efficient than its predecessor. I work with automotive OE's every day and there are a lot more things that go wrong than one may imagine. In recent times it has been everyones timing chains breaking, BMW was the worst hit all the way from the X5 and 7 series down to the Mini. It actually made me change my decision on buying a car recently because the timing chain is a known problem and requires a "mandatory update" by 70000 miles at your own expense to the tune of $5000. If you read the reports on carcomplaints.com, many people had their engines blown up due to either the timing chain or oil pump drive chain breaking and had to pay for a new motor out of pocket. GM has had a slightly less severe timing and balance shaft chain problem, they become noisy but dont break (unless you just keep driving). Ford has of course had so many engine scandals its not even funny.

    I worked in Germany as an expert in my field so I know the industry quite well. Im afraid that none of these nations or companies are infallible, regardless of how expensive their products are.
     
  12. Boatman1011
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    Boatman1011 Junior Member

    I believe there is a vibrational dampener coupling on the flywheel. Also, I read a service interval of 800h on the belt however I think all the experience is with the 200 Hp and below. The 300 Hp BMW version makes considerably more torque.

    55967EF7-D742-430E-BCC9-C37BA96739EB.jpeg
     
  13. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    well, if your diesel engine gets say 1.7 times the mileage and the diesel engine life is considered double; it clearly pays off, but you can do the analysis
     
  14. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Again KeithO, please resist the urge to inform us about what you think. Compose an email; here's the address. info@oxe-diesel.com
    Request that an engineer contact you, so you can tell him how wrong he & his company are & that they should seek your expertise & knowledge, if they wish to succeed. How about you research their website & locate their dealers & tell them how gullible they have been. Distributors - OXE Diesel https://www.oxe-diesel.com/Distributors
     

  15. KeithO
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    KeithO Senior Member

    Sir, I believe the way the forum rules work, I do not need your approval to make a posting on this forum. If you dont like my opinions/scepticism, use the ignore button. Many so called revolutionary products don't succeed, sometimes for obvious reasons. If the belt truly does need to be replaced every 800 hours, that is sounding very similar indeed to the problems that Thielert was having with their aircraft transmission. I dont know what the Swedish certified mechanics hourly rate is but at most of the local car dealerships it is more than what I paid my divorce lawyer. So that belt replacement is not going to be cheap.
     
    brendan gardam likes this.
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