Diesel outboards

[HelmutSheina]

Yes but not the lightly built European engines, beautiful engineering, but no match for Uncle Sam's cast iron in that application. The only two survivors (thus far) built their reputations on the back of Chevrolet cast iron engines that would handle salt water cooling for 20 years.

 

[montero]

 

[montero]

Yes but not the lightly built European engines, beautiful engineering, but no match for Uncle Sam's cast iron in that application. The only two survivors (thus far) built their reputations on the back of Chevrolet cast iron engines that would handle salt water cooling for 20 years.

What about Chevy's diesel of the '80 ?

 

[wet feet]

And China has never made a desirable car. If they had, people would find a way to buy it. There is more to it than barriers to market entry. They simply have not made any great car.

I think you ought to take a look at this video:

.Then reflect on the fact that the companies involved have only existed a few years and are now dominant in the world's number one market.Without tariffs,who knows how they would fare?

As for diesel outboards,they use an inherently less dangerous fuel,which is also less expensive over time as the engines are inherently more thermally efficient.It would probably involve an exercise in propellor matching to reach optimal efficiency,but sooner or later it is likely to happen.For a good analogy,you might also seek out the video in which a standard Cessna 172 is compared to an identical aircraft with a diesel engine.

 

[fallguy]

I’m just saying it would be a pretty big gamble to buy a Chinese diesel ob. And it’ll be hard for them to prove their ob superior, not only is it a technical challenge, as others have shown, but the bias against them adds to the challenge.

Don’t blame me for honesty!

 

[montero]

It depends.

 

[HelmutSheina]

What about Chevy's diesel of the '80 ?

Volvo & VM diesels were the only ones in sterndrives I remember.

 

[montero]

Volvo & VM diesels were the only ones in sterndrives I remember.

"lightly built European engines"
I'm asking about '80 Chevy automotive attempt to diesel tech .

 

[montero]

Junkers Jumo 205 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

this is lightly build European diesel . If you dig deep enough it's still alive.

 

[powerabout]

BMW made sterndrives for boats in the 80s with their own engines.

Engines were nice but they forgot to ask an American how to do the rest, lots of engineering mistakes, points ignition, geez when all the other brands were electronic.
Yes looks good on paper but how are you going to fix it problems.

The small inboard diesels were Hatz, tough engines but lots of them got replaced under warranty due to a beginner mistake
Then ran them on fuel at the factory that went off and solid...we know where a diesel governor is at rest..lol BOOM on first start.

I dont think the real players will do a diesel outboard due to meeting emission requirements.
They need to send a bag of money to whomever at the EU and EPA allowed 4s outboards without cat cons to add diesel outboard to that list

 

[DogCavalry]

Well, like I said, I don't think it is even possible, fron an engineering perspective, to make a competative diesel outboard

 

[montero]

I'm just looking from my perspective.

Engineering once served humanity. Technological development was logical and served to improve quality, increase power, and increase speed. Of course, I'm talking about boat engines.

Forcing standards on manufacturers of outboard engines that are used only four weeks a year is completely senseless. Small engines, especially those up to 50 hp, should be exempt from any regulations.

Most of the time boats sleeps.

 

[montero]

Well, like I said, I don't think it is even possible, fron an engineering perspective, to make a competative diesel outboard

Why ?

 

[HelmutSheina]

Engines were nice but they forgot to ask an American how to do the rest, lots of engineering mistakes, points ignition, geez when all the other brands were electronic.
Yes looks good on paper but how are you going to fix it problems.

The small inboard diesels were Hatz, tough engines but lots of them got replaced under warranty due to a beginner mistake
Then ran them on fuel at the factory that went off and solid...we know where a diesel governor is at rest..lol BOOM on first start.

I dont think the real players will do a diesel outboard due to meeting emission requirements.
They need to send a bag of money to whomever at the EU and EPA allowed 4s outboards without cat cons to add diesel outboard to that list

I was apprenticed at a dealership that sold and fitted those sterndrives, and the BMW petrol engines were decidedly not nice under marine conditions; trim rams leaking after a few months and supposedly not serviceable, though they used standard sized seals & orings, plus a 100 other failures. As you say, beginner's mistakes.

On diesel outboards, I guess we will have them while there remains a market. I looked after some about 50hp, many moons ago, and apart from keeping powerheads up to them, things just fell apart and off due to vibration.

I like the way Oxe does it by keeping the shaft horizontal, which allows for pretty much any suitable engine to be used, and brings significant mass inboard of the transom. The timing belts to the propshaft are concerning. I'd rather see chain, and to hell with the noise. I haven't seen how they reverse prop rotation with this system.

 

[HelmutSheina]

Why ?

Montero you could make one yourself if your engineering and fabrication are good enough, though I can't imagine why you'd want to. The Oxe design allows a marinised car/truck engine to be used, but it will be difficult to reverse without a specialised transmission.

Oxe are on to something here that may be a revolution in marine propulsion if they can sort out issues in their drive train; in an application where mass matters and reliability is paramount.

Here is a diagram from their site. Lots of fruit in the drivetrain, they also mention a hydraulic multi-plate transmission, which would have to be proprietary.