Diesel outboards

[montero]

Maybe let the Chinese do their thing since others don't want to/don't pay off...

 

[DogCavalry]

I guess you didn't read my last, @montero . Speaking Chinese doesn't change physics or chemistry. They won't be able to do it either. Because reality doesn't allow it. Certainly not at a chinesium level of quality.

 

[montero]

I guess you didn't read my last, @montero . Speaking Chinese doesn't change physics or chemistry. They won't be able to do it either. Because reality doesn't allow it. Certainly not at a chinesium level of quality.

I read it quite carefully. Don't you have too many diesels there?

For example, the Merc F60 I'm looking to buy is 100% Chinese.

The point is, no one has been willing to take diesel outboards seriously. Maybe the Chinese will do it.

 

[DogCavalry]

I read it quite carefully. Don't you have too many diesels there?

For example, the Merc F60 I'm looking to buy is 100% Chinese.

The point is, no one has been willing to take diesel outboards seriously. Maybe the Chinese will do it.

Certainly your knowledge of mechamical engineering makes you an excellent advisor. Maybe they could hire you as a consultant.

 

[fallguy]

Maybe let the Chinese do their thing since others don't want to/don't pay off...

It will surprise me if the Chinese are able to produce a sustainable product like a diesel outboard; despite the Parsun effort, which I believe is them.

For one thing, the market will never be vast.

The Chinese are good at mass production and volume, but they haven’t got a track record of building exceptional vehicles. I’m not sure the Merc is assembled in China, but probably parts are made there for multiple Merc lines en mass and then QA’d elsewhere and assembled.

Not sure how well the electric car is going for them. I think they were going to not charge cars, but swap batteries? They have an electric car, but never saw a single one here in the US, Poland?

At least the Chinese didn’t use concentration camp laborers like the Germans did 80 years ago. But BMW made a lot of money on the backs of people they literally killed and is hard to not consider a bit if you are Polish as I am.. I digress, but BMW is a great and respected car with a sick history.

But can you seriously imagine a warranty claim on a diesel engine with them? I can’t.

So, you sort of give them way more credit than most of the rest of the world.

I tried to avoid being antagonostic with you, but China is just not known for quality in many things.

I’ll give them the Li battery though. But it fits them well of you think about it. Cheap components and lots of them and only the BMS is really technical. It isn’t like they need to build to 0.0001” +/- 0.000003

 

[montero]

Certainly your knowledge of mechamical engineering makes you an excellent advisor. Maybe they could hire you as a consultant.

This isn't a good idea. Then the Chinese lunar base would be built next year.

As I wrote above, the gear ratio could even be 1.2-1.4. The props selection is probably the bottleneck.

 

[montero]

https://www.rideapart.com/news/791867/first-chinese-bike-zxmoto-820rr-wins-wssp/

@ fallguy
The automotive industry isn't a free market. That's why you can't buy a Chinese car.

It's regulated to protect production. In Europe, Toyota is Peugeot, Fiat, and something else. Times have changed.

BMW has made and continues to make good engines, but small BMWs, for example, have French diesels under the hood. BMW's good automotive diesel engine expired in 2010. It was also used in boats.

How many BMW parts are made in China? Probably more than you think.

Returning to outboard motors, the quality of cheap Chinese two-strokes will never approach that of Japanese ones.
I've heard that the quality of Chinese four-strokes isn't the worst, but they're certainly not as good as Japanese ones.
That doesn't mean they can't. They're improving the quality of their products, just like Japanese, Korean, and TW did before.
Of course, I don't mean to offend anyone, but there were times in the history of technology when metal products from Germany were mass-produced, and they started writing "made in England" to distinguish "good" products from cheap mass-produced German products.

It's always an evolution. Check it out on your iPhone. It's Chinese...

 

[HelmutSheina]

BMW made sterndrives for boats in the 80s with their own engines.

 

[HelmutSheina]

Certainly your knowledge of mechamical engineering makes you an excellent advisor. Maybe they could hire you as a consultant.

Mr Pot calling the Kettle Black.

 

[fallguy]

Mr Pot calling the Kettle Black.

Not really..John made cogent comment about inherent problems with diesel outboards and Montero thinks the Chinese will magically overcome the hurdles. The Chinese haven’t exactly been the hotbed of innovation, so it is a bit odd to think they will be the innovators on a small, niche market like diesel ob. And they didn’t invent or create the smartphone. The designers went to them for cheap production which is China’s claim to fame. Part of why they are the best Li battery producers in the world as well; it is less about innovation and more about where they excel.

And China has never made a desirable car. If they had, people would find a way to buy it. There is more to it than barriers to market entry. They simply have not made any great car. I’d say a diesel outboard is probably harder to build well than a car, based on the history of the device alone.

The Chinese are also not known for international r&d partnering. So, even if John or Montero were the best engineers on diesel o/b, China would be more likely to use their work than pay them for it. They are far better known for theft of ip than creation of it.

This is why a certain US President so easily wins public favor with political rhetoric against them.

Back to the actual engine issue. Can anyone explain what is unique about the diesel ob that it vibrates more? Are the pistons just heavier material? Or is there a difference in throttle response? Longer stroke? I had a 76hp Perkins diesel in a lawnmower and I miss her. That thing was sweet. I bet the engine block alone was 600 pounds.

 

[montero]

BMW made sterndrives for boats in the 80s with their own engines.

Bet it was not very succesfully attempt ?