Diesel/Hydrogen Hybrid Trawler

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Towboat Ed, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Do you remember this :
    I , with ease, can tell a three years old child the theories of the whole universe.
    The question is: does it understand?
    Contributing here is like the response of a three years old to those theories!?
     
  2. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    Numbers

    What is the decrease on gallons per hour for fuel consumption you feel like considering to accept and say an innovation works ?

    20%, 30% more ?
     
  3. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Gallons per hour is not the sum total of a decision. I decrease my fuel economy by going to a more restrictive air filter that filter air better and cleanup oil exhaust. My engine room is now cleaner and my engines happier. Also you can save fuel, but burn out your alternator or something else. It is not a matter of just saving fuel. But let me tell you saving 10% in fuel on a properly tune and condition setup is big deal and requires a efficiency increase of a magnitude not something that can be easily done.
     
  4. kistinie
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    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    So we could say that a 20% reduction obtained only from the addition of an external device is enough to demonstrate the solution is worth going for.
    20% is enough to clear most of external factors that may corrupt measures such as humidity, air temp, fuel quality
    This without any other change like a KN fresh air intake or new free flow muffler.
    The problem is that it takes time and a rigorous method to do true measures.
    Here, we are currently a few ex car racers/engine builders, testing different motors to test different solutions, most being water based
    My first personal measures were corrupted by an erratic syphon on tank feeding falsifying refill measure. New test are going on. My friend's smile, i know so well the meaning, tell me to keep on working... If i get undoubted results much over 20%, i get back with more news
     
  5. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    I used water all the time, when I was a kid. It cools intake air, lower detonation, allowed high compression engine to run on almost regular gas. But ultimately it did not increase fuel economy or efficiency a measurable amount. Something to look at is humidity in air. One of benefits of intercooler beside lowering temperature is removing humidity. Humidity will make you lose horsepower. That is why an engine performs better in cool dry day and not a hot muggy day...
     
  6. kistinie
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    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    what is the mechanism involved in humidity removing of an inter cooler ?
    refreshing air rise humidity % no ?
    Where does this water go ?
     
  7. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Someone else may know this. But it works just like a air conditioner
     
  8. Towboat Ed
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Towboat Ed Junior Member

    WOW ,..WHAT GREAT NUMBERS,,,..90% gain in MPG ??

    BUT WHERE ARE THEY COMING FROM...NOT FROM ME. Some of you guys obviously have me confused with someone else....probably a man named Ozzie Freedom ? He is the marketing GURU known as water4gas...currently being sued for fraud by the State of Texas.. I have made no rediculous,impossible claims......I now have all my testing equipment working, and will be posting results as soon as the Gale subsides. Same Plan, just another unavoidable delay...till then.... www.water4fuel4boats.com
     
  9. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    kerosene Senior Member

    well Ed,

    I do appreciate your responses on the fact that you are not trying to make an easy buck (hope that is true). I hope this comes trough as objective results from your tests - ie. you will post results even if results are against your assumptions. You ask for open mind - I hope you have one too.

    And about the 90% gains... from your website:

    "Reduce your Carbon Footprint !! HHO reduces Harmful Emmisions by up to 90% !!"

    As we all know carbon footprint correlates straight to fuel consumed. of course sentence above could mean "reduce carbon monoxide and Nox emissions by up to 90% - and reduce your carbon footprint" - however in its current form it clearly suggest that your carbon emissions could drop by up to 90%...
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    It still goes through the engine naturally. But intercooling increases the density of air and that way the (relative) humidity is decreased.
    Naturally

    Regards
    Richard
     
  11. kistinie
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    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    Thanks for answer about intercooler
    I opened one just after using it...and found some water inside :)


    Some knowledge about hydrogen that was the original subject

    technical review
    http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Hydrogen_from_Water

    Towards a Hydrogen Economy
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=0d86548d3532653782b7ee234db43759

    Hydrogen myths
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=0d86548d3532653782b7ee234db43759

    Electrolysis propulsion by NASA
    http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/1997/TM-113157.pdf


    Here on earth we all have accepted, i hope, that H² added to an ICE gives great results (if not convinced yet of this transition solution before full electric solution, please test it by yourself before barking to scandal)
    The only question is how to get H with low energy needs to make it from sun, wind or bacterias

    You will find hundreds of patent about this, from polymer to plasma and the most bizarre tech, and of course resonant circuits (Stanley Meyer) to split the H and O
    Can all these search lead to an absolute NOTHING ?
    It is very hard to beleive so much energy is spent searching and finding, without a single positive result coming to our car, boat or home today. (i hope you forgive me to ...forget fuel cell reformer based)
    How can it be wise to electrolyse water to run a satellite and not help an ice engine...:confused:

    Now from my own test i found that DC electrolysing of distilled water with DC current produced by an alternator, in Sodium hydroxyde solution is not bringing any significant GPH reduction under normal use, only a smoother run at very low Rpm (under 1000) was noticeable. AND bring the draw back of destroying aluminium inlet pipes that will produce H² with hydroxyde sodium vapour. A bubbler is compulsory to take these vapour off
    But I have realized that my first electroliser was not correctly made for 14V as 7 plates cell are needed

    Next test will take in account theses corrections

    In short even if it is ok for test purpose forget DC basic electrolyse, it will bring you average results or disappointment because over heating but because of absence of electronic efficiency will be ok
    PWM is a key to efficient cool electrolyse and regulated amps (so heat)
    Plasma and other sophisticated devices can be tested to if you can afford.

    Bob BOYCE plans seems to be among the best and his discover was ...on a racing boat. Read the Pdf, this is a real quality documentation
    http://pesn.com/2007/01/08/9500445_Bob_Boyce_Electrolyzer_Plans/
    http://pesn.com/2007/09/29/9500450_BobBoyce_Electrolizer_Plans/d9.pdf


    I read a Russian searcher got 3000 time efficiency improvement playing with plasma, and ultrasonic vortex...true or scam ?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2009
  12. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    No, it only works in your own mind. Again, using anything like a alternator to separate hydrogen is inefficient. And the power or benefit from hydrogen is minimal. It is far easier and efficient to simply boil water and use the steam. As we know that has been around for a while.
     
  13. kistinie
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    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    In my own mind ?
    Our own mind you mean ?
    It seems we are a lot to say the same thing.

    You should tell the NASA to forget about electrolyse and go for a steam satellite.
    Tell them first, if they accept, i give you a hand and stop with hydrogen

    Till this moment some are moving on for new and simple things
    http://americanfuelvehicles.com/ProductsandServices.aspx
     
  14. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    1 NASA has Nasa budgets
    2 They do research on any idea that they get paid to do
    3. What works in space as a thruster to push a spacecraft with no inertia has nothing to do with boats in the water. May be if you launched your boat into space.
    4. The law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant. A consequence of this law is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The only thing that can happen with energy in an isolated system is that it can change form, for instance kinetic energy can become thermal energy. Because energy is associated with mass in the Einstein's theory of relativity, the conservation of energy also implies the conservation of mass in isolated systems (that is, the mass of a system cannot change, so long as energy is not permitted to enter or leave the system).

    So if water has potential energy, then via some other energy, electricity, microwave, ultrasound, the molecular bond, which is considered a strong bond breaks apart into Hydrogen and oxygen. Oxygen is not a fuel, it is a oxidizer, so the hydrogen that is left, very little for each molecule of water is left.
    5. So you either need to carry a large amount of Hydrogen in a tank, or have something that can produce a lot electricity to generate the hydrogen, like a nuclear powerplant. But it is still inefficient. It is still cheaper just to make electricity via a diesel generator.
    6. Whenever you convert energy there is a percentage loss whether by heat, friction, electrical resistance etc. So the more times you go back and forth you loss more. If you burn fuel, to generate electricity to make fuel, then burn fuel to produce power and then feed electric motor that needs electronic controller. Every step it loss energy. Just burn the original fuel and turn a shaft... Much more efficient...
    7.The laws of physics apply in a 10000hp engine or in a little one
    8. The more complicate something on a boat is the more of a chance it will break and leave you stranded in a possibly life threatening situation.

    So it is safer, cheaper and ultimately more eco-friendly to use a sailboat with a diesel than all these other "Nasa" ideas...
     

  15. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    BINGO ...but not for oil company this time

    Bingo fuel !
    If you fly a plane this tells you something like... hope

    20 times more H² than conventional DC electrolyse...

    This nice french experiment gives

    1080 litres of gas to burn with 30 V AC, 80 Amps source so 2400 VA

    With this you can run a 5 HP motor
    http://jlnlabs.online.fr/bingofuel/html/bfr5hpgen.htm

    And is based on a very brand new 1898 patent from Hilliary Eldridge US 603,058 "Electrical Retort"

    But CNRS (again) is improving the thing in 2007 !
    http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2007063244

    Funny to see how all these idiots keep on searching how to electrolyse water

    http://www.newswire.co.kr/?job=news&no=366039


    To finish with style:
    This one producing H² with a cop over 11 (1150%)
    French guys again ! (based on a Russian patent)

    http://www.gifnet.org/MAHG/The Moller's Atomic Hydrogen Generator.htm

    And the last CEA - CNRS plan for H² (CEA is the French Nuclear authority, CNRS is national state research)
    http://www-anr-panh.cea.fr/home/lib.../Production hydrogène/PANH 2008 AIRELLES1.pdf
    And US
    http://www.transportation.anl.gov/fuel_cells/me_assemblies.html


    Please I'm a true idiot :confused: , need help.
    Can someone explain me again how it doesn't work to electrolyse water with a Cop >11 ?
    Dear APEX please help me, say again only idiots ignore the 2nd LT and that there is no salvation out of oil...i'm loosing faith in EXXON and TOTAL... i'm loosing my oiled soul in H² vapour

    GAME OVER




    H² H² H²
    H² H² H² H² H² H²
    H² H² H² H² H² H² H² H² H² H² H² H²

    This being said, i feel lighter

    i really hope that now this dispute about hydrogen is over and that we will work in peace, much more open to the world and keep on improving our boats in harmony

    http://www.gifnet.org/message.htm
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2009
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