Diesel Fuel from Air & Water

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, May 27, 2015.

  1. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Audi just created diesel fuel from air and water
    http://www.gizmag.com/audi-creates-e-diesel-from-co2/37130/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Edq_Irstk
     
  2. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    Very interesting. Will hope that cost to produce comes in below current methods.
     
  3. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    These methods to make fuel work, but the cost so far makes them not worth developing. Consider that Saudis to slow fracking and them losing market share decided to pump more oil and pump more and more oil.
    In Fact since the earth makes oil without the need of fossils abiotically, there is never going to be peak oil.

    'Long held dream of German engineers' something Hitler and WWII Germans sought, synthetic oils since the war effort could not be sustained, they were held captive to their lack of resources..
     
  4. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Say NO, to tar sands oil

    Not only the costs to produce have to be considered, BUT the costs of the alternatives to our Earth.

    Just take a good look at what the tar sands oil production is doing to Canada...
    IMAGES





    ....and if you get a chance watch one of these films I just saw on PBS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut5UakPc5MM
    Look at what that mining and its tailings is doing to their precious water supply

    http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2015/05/broadcast-premier-of-on-sacred-ground.html
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  5. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Neither Saudi nor Iraq need to employ fracking

    I remember now when you introduced this subject previously. I found some of the arguments convincing, and I jst never had the time to read even more about this theory. Regrettably I don't have that time right now either.

    But there has been a lot of new technology advances since then. The Germans made it work, just not in the volume they needed for their war effort.
     
  6. ch3oh
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    ch3oh Junior Member

    This "fuel" is just a way to employ electric energy on a diesel car, so it's not anything that will be around for decades as primary source of energy. Just a way to use electricity for transport without altering existing cars. You burn diesel to get energy. Waste comes out of exhaust. You take the waste from athmosphere and charge it with energy from the grid to get diesel again. So diesel charging efficiency is 70%, discharge efficiency is something like 25% to move a really good diesel car. Lithium battery charging efficiency is something like 85-95% and drive eff. could be like 45-85% depending on need for headlights or cabin heating etc. So efficiency can't compete with EV:s at all. Energy density of diesel is way better than todays battery technology though. You can run your "electically powered" (diesel) car 1000km on a 60 kg "battery" (fuel tank). This being a temporary fix doesn't make it less cool or important, because replacing all diesel engines would take better half of decade if we stopped making them now.
     
  7. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The use of electric batts VS diesel oil can be broken down to cost.

    Its about 6c a KW for electric from burning coal.

    Coal can be transformed into diesel, , then used as fuel , but probably not as cheaply as just burning coal.

    The process is from before WWII,

    Coal to Liquids | Department of Energy
    energy.gov/fe/...coal.../coal-liquids
    United States Department of Energy

    The Hydrogen and Clean Coal Fuels Program supports DOE's strategic goals of ... and developing novel technologies that convert the nation's abundant coal ... gas (SNG) which can help reduce reliance on imported oil and natural gas.
    [PDF]conversion of coal to liquids by fischer-tropsch and oil/gas ...
    https://web.anl.gov/.../22_7_CHICAGO_08...

    Argonne National Laboratory
    by JB O'Hara - ‎Cited by 1 - ‎Related articles
    Conversion of coal to liquid and gaseous fuels as well as chemical products has been ... at increased cost, to further illustrate the flexibility of the technology.
    [PDF]Liquid Fuels from U.S. Coal - National Mining Association
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/www.nma.org/.../liquid_coal_fuels_100505....

    National Mining Association
    Coal can be converted through proven, existing modern technology into clean, zero-sulfur ... Why are there no commercial coal-to-liquid plants in the U.S. today?
     
  8. Rastapop
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    Rastapop Naval Architect

    At what rate do you imagine it's produced?

    There will of course be peak oil, because we're already in the long, slow process of weaning ourselves off it. We'll reach a point where demand is so low that the market is flooded and so production will drop. Peak oil.

    Because who in their right minds, other than the incumbents already heavily invested, would risk their money on something as unpopular as fossil fuels these days? Divestment from fossil fuels is happening all over.
     
  9. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    While I'm just going by memory here I seem to recall that one of the touted issues with a previously dominant industrial method for hydrogen production was the CO production.
     
  10. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    Yes that could be correct - afaik most hydrogen is currently created from natural gas.
     
  11. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    That would be peak oil use, but I dont know if the world long term would slack off using oil, consider all the billions who dont have cars yet and dont live in luxury homesteads with running water and lots of plastic toys.
     
  12. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Heh ... so now we've figured out to make some gas from water and some water from gas!

    And who says humans aren't smart?
     
  13. Rastapop
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    Rastapop Naval Architect

    Many of those people will never own an oil powered car, their first cars will be electric.

    Even if that isn't the case we'll still reach peak oil production st some point.
     
  14. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    but I dont know if the world long term would slack off using oil, consider all the billions who dont have cars yet and dont live in luxury homesteads with running water and lots of plastic toys.


    With billions living on under $2.00 US per day , a lot will have to change before these folks are looking for a car!
     

  15. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

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