Diesel Electric Conversions - Are Systems Available

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Barron, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Do´nt know how she was plated. And I doubt she has half frame spacing, that would be overkill. A icegoing freighter has half spacing in the bow area only. A icebreaker in the forward third of the hull, then it gets wider. Though in the bow you´ll find 30cm on centers.

    No idea where the "sneaking on whales" rubbish comes from, but you do´nt surprise Cetaceans, when you have a genny running. They hear you already when ten miles away.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  2. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

  3. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Congratulatios!

    Reportedly amongst the most dubious companies in our field! Wild claims, bold promises and no boats.
     
  4. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    I have always wondered - Thanks for verifying! "Wild claims, bold promises and no boats".
    I havn't gone far into their site for years but I think that pic of those Siemens electric moters was on the FEYS page a while back...

    AEPS_Mounting.jpg
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    The Siemens pair was installed on one boat by Nordhavn. They did never a second one.
    Though the quality is outstanding, and it does exactly what it is designed for, they soon found out (what the experts know for long), it does never pay.
    A fully integrated and automated El. management system, which is a MUST to make such setup at least a little bit efficient, is easily as expensive as the whole common propulsion would be! Just to mention that as well.

    El. propulsion yes. On ponds and lakes, as since hundred years common practice.
    Hybrid propulsion yes. In maybe ten or twenty years, when energy storage comes to the level of diesel fuel.
    Diesel electric NO. Not on yachts, not today and not in 200 years. Cruiseships and Icebreakers are a bit a different breed, though.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  6. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    Once again i take a good time reading your tales.
    You see 200 years away from now !
    Your clairvoyance is outstanding Apex !

    Next time you meet god, ask him if solar panels are better than windmill.

    Ask also about ISO normalisation and Hymar project progress ...


    See u later !
    Alligator !
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Not only 200 years Baby. Many thousands..........

    Nonsense is nonsense, no matter how long and often it is promoted. People will not use a hammer to fell a tree in 200 years, and they will not waste energy in converting it twice!
    Even not in 2000 years.

    But you still do´nt know (and will never learn) marine terminology, so, you have no idea what Diesel Electric propulsion means.:mad:
     
  8. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    Oh my lord !

    How can we resist to such an exhaustive demonstration.
    All aspects of the problem are covered, pro and cons...
    You have been gifted by nature.
    Having such a cognitive capacity, is very unusual.

    Your technical argumentation is, brilliant.

    Did you ever think to improve the Talmud ?

    Please, Apex our lord, protect us, show to those like me, that in the dark remain, where the light is !

    Amen !
     
  9. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Right

    And that stands on a solid basement for the next centuries.

    Posting a link that shows a generator is no argument btw. It is no argument either that it was done several times.
    Possible and sensible are words with completely different meanings.
    Obviously some never will grasp that.
     
  11. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: Melbourne/Singapore/Italy

    powerabout Senior Member

    True just an add.

    BUT

    Feadship, Amels, Lurssen, Wally, Palmer Jonhson, Benetti etc have all done some in the last coupe of years and continue to do so.
    Clearly Cat believe there is a market.
    The fact that the vessels using DEP are getting smaller and more of them tells me it's a trend.
    If the disadvantage is cost of electronics I would never bet on that as history has shown things get smaller and cheaper very quickly.
     
  12. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    The disadvantage is simpler, it never can be avoided that you loose power in converting from diesel to el. The controller cost and the additional cost of a generator and el. motor are never to avoid either.

    So, no matter how many completely inexperienced yachtowners order such setup, and they do yes, it cannot be efficient by any sensible means.
    There are 60 meter yachts with Azipods, Leander, a 75 meter Kusch built, has Pump Jets, several Wally boats have Pump jets too. All nice and expensive gimmicks, but only to satisfy a clients wish. Sensible is different.

    But you know, it is so easy and enjoyable for a NA and a yard to follow a customers wishlist instead of talking him out of his idiotic phantasy. It makes a 50 million yacht cost 75 million, that means INCOME !

    On a cruise ship (or yachts of similar size, like the ones you pointed towards indirectly), the hotel load is often so high, that the genny size must not be increased much to double as a propulsion. But that is never the case on average Joe´s boat.
    Therefore it never can become a sensible choice.

    Operation modes, making a Diesel El. setup worth thinking about, are not seen on yachts.
    A Icebreaker must not care about consumption, going through is the requirement, no matter if the initial cost is another 50 million or even 500 (like the nuclear powered), or not. Get the business going is the goal, and El. propulsion fits it.

    Now, do you understand why I said it will never be a sensible propulsion for boats / yachts?
     
  13. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

    All Valid points, perhaps the pleasure market it will suit is say the under 100kw where you dont have a gen set but by going DEP you get gobs of house power which you wouldnt have without a gen set.
    So you have an electric motor and controller over another engine and gearbox.
    There will be loss from fuel to elec as you say but maybe you pick it up by motoring on batterys that you solar charged?

    Anyone know of any Steyr installations that make sense?
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No no mate,

    now you come up with a Hybrid setup! That was´nt the topic.:(

    And of course you do not "pick up" anything. How does your extra cost of el. motor, generator, controller, inverter, batteries and PV panels pay back?
    Right: NEVER

    The Steyr is a good and proven system (but not cheap).
     

  15. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    CDK retired engineer

    This topic should be deep frozen until someone has developed a cheap fuel cell to convert diesel to electricity with over 80% efficiency.
     
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